The implications of "All Lives Matter"

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Bradleigh
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30 Jun 2020, 11:07 pm

Magna wrote:

LGB was history at one point. Then LGBT was history at a point and people accepted that initialism. Then LBGTQ. I see no problem with modifying initialisms as causes evolve.

Because the pride movement went past LGB that only specifically deal with same sex or both attraction, and also into gender, which was not covered at all by the original three letters. I still am pretty sure that despite the Q and other letters, LGBT is still the usual norm for saying the saying the movement, the other letters just usually get implied.

It is different from something like BLM which always implied the "Too" or "Also" part.

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Bradleigh
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30 Jun 2020, 11:10 pm

Brictoria wrote:

I don't think so. The onomatopoeia sounds explosive and would associate violence with the cause.

At this point, with the rioting and looting associated with the protests (whether by protesters or those using protests as cover), I think that bird has flown...[/quote]

I don't think it has, as much as those of certain types of media might want to tie people protesting for equality to people breaking windows because of a moment of anarchy.

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Magna
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30 Jun 2020, 11:38 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Magna wrote:

LGB was history at one point. Then LGBT was history at a point and people accepted that initialism. Then LBGTQ. I see no problem with modifying initialisms as causes evolve.

Can you show me where BLM has said that the "too" is implied, or has always been implied?

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30 Jun 2020, 11:39 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Magna wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

TuskenR wrote:

BLAM!

Black Lives Also Matter

That would be a good alternative...inclusive and easy to remember.

I don't think so. The onomatopoeia sounds explosive and would associate violence with the cause.

At this point, with the rioting and looting associated with the protests (whether by protesters or those using protests as cover), I think that bird has flown...

^ Touché.

Brictoria
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30 Jun 2020, 11:39 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Magna wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

I don't think so. The onomatopoeia sounds explosive and would associate violence with the cause.

At this point, with the rioting and looting associated with the protests (whether by protesters or those using protests as cover), I think that bird has flown...

I don't think it has, as much as those of certain types of media might want to tie people protesting for equality to people breaking windows because of a moment of anarchy.

The fact that very little (if anything) is heard from the protest organisers condeming the riots/looting, nor action by protesters to isolate or stop those working to initiate riots would suggest to an impartial observer that they are providing tacit approval for these actions...

Bradleigh
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30 Jun 2020, 11:46 pm

Magna wrote:

Can you show me where BLM has said that the "too" is implied, or has always been implied?

It has always been implied. It was never something like saying only black lives matter, that is how language works.

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Bradleigh
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30 Jun 2020, 11:52 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Funny, because I have. There have even been protestors that have confronted rioters and told them to stop.

I think that you are making a very serious accusation by saying they approve of them.

Asking you to prove a negative for this statement would be rather difficult, but accusing them of approving it is very serious and requires something to give it any credibility.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/31/george-floyd-protesters-condemn-opportunistic-looting-violence

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Brictoria
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01 Jul 2020, 12:48 am

Bradleigh wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

Congratulations: you found a report from 4 weeks ago.

So we have one example of diiscouragement (hence the "very little" in my comment) to cover the rioting/looting which occurred over an extended period, including after this "discouragement" (hence the "tacit approval")...

Imagine how much more support there may have been (and less negative coverage) if the protesters had simply surrounded police stations and commenced a "sit-down" protest, preventing\hampering access to\from the building(s), rather than wandering around in a mob, providing cover for people to instigate the violence.

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01 Jul 2020, 1:18 am

Brictoria wrote:

Imagine how much more support there may have been (and less negative coverage) if the protesters had simply surrounded police stations and commenced a "sit-down" protest, preventing\hampering access to\from the building(s), rather than wandering around in a mob, providing cover for people to instigate the violence.

They have done the protests before, no one listened to them. In fact who had sports people called traitors for daring to take a knee and that they should lose their career over it. I think that you are very mistaken about how seriously protestors get taken if they just follow what people who disagree with them think they should do, and how they will get negative coverage regardless.

And there are plenty of examples where the sit down protests, have also been stopped by police going in arresting and breaking them apart for just being peaceful. And little understanding how scary that must be to just sit there as the armed police are going to regardless move in and rough them up.

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cyberdad
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01 Jul 2020, 1:25 am

Magna wrote:

It would make more sense and be more believable if both houses were on fire and the white person demanded to have their house attended to and have the fire department completely ignore the black person's house and let it burn.

The analogy requires a little more than a superficial glance magna.

The BLM movement arose in response to the acquittal of the notorious George Zimmerman after he killed Trayvon Martin back in 2013. BLM stood for the violence and discrimination Black individuals face every day in the USA. e.g. walking outside while black.

One of the first counterarguments made against BLM is that shouldn't all lives matter (not just blacks). Ironically the response made was as follows;
If you break your arm and go to the doctor, and the doctor says “all your bones matter, not just your arm.” You’re gonna look at them stupid because yes, all your bones matter but they are fine, your arm needs attention rn.
BLM is that arm, saying all lives matter is redundant.

Black people are Americans and part of the wider society but every white American knows they are treated differently because of their racial background. Rightly or wrongly most black people believe they feel less safe when in public and this is where a black person feels justified saying "my life matters just as much as yours"

So the burning house and broken arm represent black safety...they believe they are more at risk of police violence than everyone else. That's the point you missed when you swiftly judged my post to be "stupid",

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01 Jul 2020, 5:40 am

It’s very interesting that the people who find Black Lives Matter to be offensive also object to political correctness and language policing, and seek to deflect accusations of racism aimed at white people.

Given that multiple BLM supporters have told you that they don’t think non-black lives don’t matter, just accept that “Black Lives Matter” has a silent “too” on the end, until such a point that BLM supporters start calling for genocide. Otherwise you’re holding black people to a higher standard than white people, and it comes across as if you just want to find a flimsy pretence to oppose BLM. Which, funnily enough, is the exact accusation levelled against the All Lives Matter crowd to begin with.

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01 Jul 2020, 5:46 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:

The main issue I've seen with "all lives matter" is that it's consistently used as a dismissal towards the experiences of black people and the violence that is directed towards them. When people say "black lives matter" they're not saying "only black lives matter", they mean "black lives matter, too". People are misconstruing that and framing it wrong, often by willful ignorance.

If the movement changed its name to "Black Lives Matter Also" it would clear up a lot of problems.
1. Those that use "All Lives Matter" in a literal sense because they think "Black Lives Matter" is exclusionary would not have this misunderstanding.
2. Those that understand "Black Lives Matter" means "Black Lives Matter also" but feign misunderstanding for dog-whistle purposes would actually have to find real reasons to criticize BLMA.
3. Anybody that disagrees with "Black Lives Matter Also" is a racist. There is no legitimate argument against that.

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01 Jul 2020, 6:47 am

All men are created equal.
Oops, All white men are created equal.
Oops, All white/black men are created equal.
Oops, All white/black men/women are created equal.
Oops, All white/black/Asian men/women are created equal.
Oops, All white/black/Asian men/women people are created equal.

I can see why some Americans might have a problem with "all" .

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TheRobotLives
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01 Jul 2020, 6:53 am

It's petty to be offended.

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Bradleigh
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01 Jul 2020, 6:55 am

If we really want to be inclusive and relevant to any social or economic situation, why don't we just go with GTAGBTAB (Good Things Are Good, Bad Things Are Bad)?

We can have it as just one movement to bring attention for all problems in society.

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01 Jul 2020, 7:03 am

Simple rule: "Black" is the only word that should come before "Lives Matter".

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