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I have issues with feminism

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dorkseid
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12 Aug 2020, 4:18 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Is the radical fringe still radical if it becomes the mainstream?


No longer fringe, but still radical. Radical refers to the belief that change is needed at the fundamental level (usually in accordance with ones own particular belief system). From the latin "radicalis", "root".


I think society needs a lot of changes at the fundamental level. But blaming all our problems on a class of people is childish and unproductive.



Fnord
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12 Aug 2020, 4:44 pm

dorkseid wrote:
... blaming all our problems on a class of people is childish and unproductive.
Agreed.

The only problem I have with any of the social causes is when some of their warriors for justice (i.e., feminists, et cetera) blame me for something that some other successful, middle-aged, white male may have done to someone else long, long ago and/or far, far away.

I am not involved with clinics, factories, mines, and public schools in the Rust Belt, yet I am somehow guilty for their closings just because I own a few houses in California.

I was not near those unarmed black people who were shot in the back multiple times by trigger-happy cowboy cops, yet I am somehow guilty for their deaths just because my ancestors came from northern Europe and my skin is a pale pink.

I have never raped a woman, forced one to perform lewd sex acts, or denied any woman an education, employment, or housing, yet somehow I am at fault for the oppression of all women everywhere due to the simple fact that I have a Y chromosome in every 23rd pair in every one of my cells (except my erythrocytes).

Plainly said, I am not fond of the Social-Justice Warrior (SJW) stereotype, nor am I fond of those who openly claim it.


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that1weirdgrrrl
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12 Aug 2020, 5:32 pm

I love men :P

Staying off of mainstream social media helps a lot..... I've even taken breaks from WP when I felt like I was starting to butt heads with another member (they haven't posted anything in a long time though....)

I know it's hard to quit something like Facebook, but creating group texts to share updates/photos helps alleviate the "disconnected feeling."

Anyways in most cases, the violent/angry people are just loud and make themselves seem more expansive than they really are.


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dorkseid
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12 Aug 2020, 6:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
... blaming all our problems on a class of people is childish and unproductive.
Agreed.

The only problem I have with any of the social causes is when some of their warriors for justice (i.e., feminists, et cetera) blame me for something that some other successful, middle-aged, white male may have done to someone else long, long ago and/or far, far away.

I am not involved with clinics, factories, mines, and public schools in the Rust Belt, yet I am somehow guilty for their closings just because I own a few houses in California.

I was not near those unarmed black people who were shot in the back multiple times by trigger-happy cowboy cops, yet I am somehow guilty for their deaths just because my ancestors came from northern Europe and my skin is a pale pink.

I have never raped a woman, forced one to perform lewd sex acts, or denied any woman an education, employment, or housing, yet somehow I am at fault for the oppression of all women everywhere due to the simple fact that I have a Y chromosome in every 23rd pair in every one of my cells (except my erythrocytes).

Plainly said, I am not fond of the Social-Justice Warrior (SJW) stereotype, nor am I fond of those who openly claim it.


I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.



dorkseid
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12 Aug 2020, 10:24 pm

"If you want to know who's really in power, find out who you're not allowed to criticize."



cyberdad
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12 Aug 2020, 10:51 pm

dorkseid wrote:
I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.


How did race suddenly become an issue? I thought you created this thread about feminism?

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone. I agree with some of your earlier points about feminism that are worth debating but it seems you have run out of constructive things to say and your defence of your position is getting a bit flakey.



envirozentinel
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13 Aug 2020, 1:13 am

[quote="dorkseid"[/quote]

I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.[/quote]


No one should apologize for the biological factors they were born with and beyond their control, whether they are white, black, gay, straight, or whatever nationality or gender they are. Discrimination in any form is abhorrent.


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Wolfram87
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13 Aug 2020, 2:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.


How did race suddenly become an issue? I thought you created this thread about feminism?

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone. I agree with some of your earlier points about feminism that are worth debating but it seems you have run out of constructive things to say and your defence of your position is getting a bit flakey.


Considering the the dominant strain of Feminism now seems to be Intersectional Feminism, I don't think you can in good faith pretend that race isn't also relevant when criticising feminism.

dorkseid wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Is the radical fringe still radical if it becomes the mainstream?


No longer fringe, but still radical. Radical refers to the belief that change is needed at the fundamental level (usually in accordance with ones own particular belief system). From the latin "radicalis", "root".



I think society needs a lot of changes at the fundamental level. But blaming all our problems on a class of people is childish and unproductive.


Agreed, but radicals tend to ignore radical changes to society that have occoured in favour of staring themselves blind on the radical changes that they want to have happened. And that's Before we consider the issue of how authoritarian would society have to become to implement those changes. For instance, one of Feminisms express goals from the start have been the destruction of the family.


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13 Aug 2020, 2:06 am

dorkseid wrote:
I know this is going to be controversial, but I don't care. I don't care if this thread gets deleted or if I even get banned. I need to get this off my chest:

Feminism is not about gender equality; its about man-hating! The existence of #killallmen proves this.

If anyone were to create #kill all (any group aside from straight cis men), it would be deleted immediately and the creator would be banned from the platform. But #killallmen is allowed to trend and thrive on multiple social media platform including Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, and others.


A gross generalisation. :mrgreen:



dorkseid
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13 Aug 2020, 6:37 am

cyberdad wrote:

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone.


And just when the hell did I say I yearn for any of that? Stop putting word in my mouth!

You're strawmaning me. That's what people like you do!



envirozentinel
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13 Aug 2020, 7:01 am

^You're right that you didn't say you yearned for that, but don't lash out at those who want to help.


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13 Aug 2020, 7:07 am

I am not a feminist. Equal rights for all, not too complicated.


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13 Aug 2020, 7:19 am

Teach51 wrote:
I am not a feminist. Equal rights for all, not too complicated.


:)


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Sahn
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13 Aug 2020, 7:42 am

dorkseid wrote:
"If you want to know who's really in power, find out who you're not allowed to criticize."


You have been allowed a very generous amount of floorspace to critisize. All this trivial stuff tends to come out in the wash, don't sweat it.



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13 Aug 2020, 8:56 am

SecretOpossumCabal wrote:
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Are you referring to ALL feminists or just the few that you know personally?  You may only be making a sweeping generalization based on the behaviors of a small minority within the feminist movement, upon the hearsay of a larger minority of men who cannot get a girlfriend, or both.


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13 Aug 2020, 9:47 am

The problem is that the whackos (radicals) tend to be the loudest, so they end up giving their groups a bad name even if they're in the minority. This doesn't apply only to feminists but also to religious people, vegans, LBGT supporters...