People against freedom of speech and opinion more now.

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Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have, in the past, jokingly posted comments like, "tell me again about this 'Global Warming' I keep hearing about" after someone else has posted images of the aftermath of a "100-year Blizzard".  For this, I was roundly criticized and somehow accused of "Apostacy of Science".  Then again, I have also been roundly criticized for declaring that Global Warming is real.  It seems that no matter what I post, some fool will see fit to find some obscure reason to respond with criticism to what I post.

:(


This fool has the right to free speech.
This fool is sometimes allowed to express free speech if the power group allows. :P 8)



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17 Dec 2020, 4:15 pm

This whole cancel culture thing I lol about. This is nothing new. People have always been held accountable for what they said as long as I can remember. People would shun you, ignore you, not talk to you or look at you if you said something hurtful and rude. The only reason now why people get fired from their jobs now is because of the internet and cameras now and people uploading videos. This would have been very possible then if they had proof or if the work had a way of finding out without any of this new technology.

Also the term "political correctness" has become to mean being respectful and decent and not being a racist POS or a homophobic, etc. Back then it used to mean changing some terms. If this is what being PC means now, I see nothing wrong with it. PC has always been around. ret*d was the PC word for idiot and moron and imbecile. And Happy Holidays term, was around when my parents were kids. There is even a classic Christmas Song called "Happy Holidays."
When I was a kid, we still used the term criss cross apple sauce. I had no idea it was originally called Indian Style. And Spring Break, I never knew it was called Easter break, we called it Spring break when I was a kid. If all these were PC terms, then PC was around when I was a child.

I mean seriously, just be respectful and don't say anything racist or bigoted or anti semitis, etc. Also apologize and learn from it. This is just people wanting to be offensive and say anything they want and not face any social consequences. Well people have the freedom of speech to speak up and tell you how offensive and insulting you are and how racist it is for you to say it.

If a bunch of guys want to cancel me, they can go right ahead. I don't need misogynists anyway. I know other men won't cancel me. Works for me. If everyone got cancelled by the "right" people, no one would be talking about cancel culture.


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Fnord
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17 Dec 2020, 4:15 pm

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.
Your assumption is that that person throwing you out has insight, enlightenment and integrity, rather than simply being capricious, and serving there own POV.
No, I am assuming that Alex's rules for this website should be respected as if Alex was present and enforcing them himself, even if someone else would believe that he is being capricious and serving his own point of view.


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Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I think people whine and complain a lot about 'muh free speech' for the wrong reasons...some of the 'opinions' people have been shamed for are quite harmful. And to my knowledge those people haven't been arrested for what they said, just have found the public and perhaps online platforms now would prefer to keep their distance. Freedom of speech does not mean you don't have to face the consequences of what you say....


Yes.
Free speech is free to express.
Your physical freedom, not so much. :mrgreen:
Ask Nelson Mandela. 8)



Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Things that are not protected under "Free Speech":

• Burning Draft Cards
• Child Pornography
• Comments Made While Holding Certain Occupations
• Endorsing Candidates from the Pulpit
• Fighting Words
• Incitement to Suicide
• Obscenity (Community standards may vary)
• School Newspapers
• Speaking Freely in Limited Public Forums (Like the State Fair)
• Threatening the President of the United States
• Writing Whatever You Want About Someone (Libel)
• Yelling "Fire!" in a Crowded Theater (Incitement to Imminent Lawless Action)


The context you are using does not apply to the discussion at hand. 8)
Political correctness can be an insidious invasion of personal freedom of speech and thought.
It is often used as a simple means of exerting power over another.
It is often used to satisfy an emotional need for a feeling of dominance.

Hoomanity. :eew:



Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 4:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe PC is garbage....but I do believe in some things that the "left-wingers" espouse.


I always thought PC was just a fancy way of saying civility...Or I guess in some people's eyes a big scary way of saying it.


Perhaps previously, but not these days.
The term "Political Correctness" has been "weaponised" as a power-play to muzzle free speech in many cases.
It is often a tool of the left of politics.


Hmm that may be...however then you have the right of politics having gone totally overboard the other way trying to be offensive as they can with all their f*ck your feelings, mocking liberals and leftists as snowflakes and liberals ect. That said though I think it's tipper gore democrats and a small portion of self described liberals that weaponize it. Whilst it seems pretty much all the right wingers were on board with the snowflake thing at least.

And now magas want Trump declared president because their feelings are hurt he lost. :lol:


All Some people on either side of the political divide are tools.
Surely you will agree. 8)


Since you put it that way, sure.


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funeralxempire
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17 Dec 2020, 4:29 pm

So, did people 'back in the day' not have standards of decency that would cause them to no longer associate with certain people over their support of certain causes?

Plenty of right wingers tried to cancel Muhammad Ali back in the day because he was critical of America's war against Vietnam. Jane Fonda faced similar backlash and in some circles is still cancelled. That's only two examples, but the idea of facing ostracization over one's views isn't new in the slightest.

The only thing that has changed is that now one might also face it for views typical of the right, so now they belly ache that other people are defining what's political correct differently from what they would define.


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17 Dec 2020, 4:31 pm

Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe PC is garbage....but I do believe in some things that the "left-wingers" espouse.


I always thought PC was just a fancy way of saying civility...Or I guess in some people's eyes a big scary way of saying it.


Perhaps previously, but not these days.
The term "Political Correctness" has been "weaponised" as a power-play to muzzle free speech in many cases.
It is often a tool of the left of politics.


Bitching about 'political correctness' is a common behaviour among those on the right when they realize their standards of political correctness aren't everyone else's. Condemning hateful views doesn't silence them, it merely criticizes them.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2020, 4:33 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If you call somebody the "N-word," that person has the "freedom" to punch you in the face. That's freedom of speech--with consequences!


More to the point.

You can call somebody the N word.

And the rest of us can call you a racist a**hole in response.

But then you cant complain that the rest of us are 'violating your freedom of speech' because we are all pillorying you for using the N word , because...the rest of us....also...have... freedom of speech. And are free to express our indignation.

When the government, or the private website, or whatever...lifts the restrictions on your "freedom of speech" it also lifts the protection of you from the free speech of others.



Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.
Your assumption is that that person throwing you out has insight, enlightenment and integrity, rather than simply being capricious, and serving there own POV.
No, I am assuming that Alex's rules for this website should be respected as if Alex was present and enforcing them himself, even if someone else would believe that he is being capricious and serving his own point of view.


I didn't have Alex in mind.
Please don't misrepresent me.

I have been told, by XFG, that there are moderators less forgiving than those on WP.
I believe it. 8)

BTW, I was under the impression you didn't read my posts.
Huh. :scratch:
Even the best of us can be wrong, at times. :P :mrgreen:



Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 4:34 pm

Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think people whine and complain a lot about 'muh free speech' for the wrong reasons...some of the 'opinions' people have been shamed for are quite harmful. And to my knowledge those people haven't been arrested for what they said, just have found the public and perhaps online platforms now would prefer to keep their distance. Freedom of speech does not mean you don't have to face the consequences of what you say....


Yes.
Free speech is free to express.
Your physical freedom, not so much. :mrgreen:
Ask Nelson Mandela. 8)


What was their context and meaning of that? I am confused how exactly that ties into my post.


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Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 4:35 pm

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.
Your assumption is that that person throwing you out has insight, enlightenment and integrity, rather than simply being capricious, and serving there own POV.
No, I am assuming that Alex's rules for this website should be respected as if Alex was present and enforcing them himself, even if someone else would believe that he is being capricious and serving his own point of view.


I didn't have Alex in mind.
Please don't misrepresent me.

I have been told, by XFG, that there are moderators less forgiving than those on WP.
I believe it. 8)

BTW, I was under the impression you didn't read my posts.
Huh. :scratch:
Even the best of us can be wrong, at times. :P :mrgreen:


Its true, on some sub-reddits you'll get banned if you claim the election was a fraud or express support of Trump.


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Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:42 pm

League_Girl wrote:
This whole cancel culture thing I lol about. This is nothing new. People have always been held accountable for what they said as long as I can remember. People would shun you, ignore you, not talk to you or look at you if you said something hurtful and rude. The only reason now why people get fired from their jobs now is because of the internet and cameras now and people uploading videos. This would have been very possible then if they had proof or if the work had a way of finding out without any of this new technology.

Also the term "political correctness" has become to mean being respectful and decent and not being a racist POS or a homophobic, etc. Back then it used to mean changing some terms. If this is what being PC means now, I see nothing wrong with it. PC has always been around. ret*d was the PC word for idiot and moron and imbecile. And Happy Holidays term, was around when my parents were kids. There is even a classic Christmas Song called "Happy Holidays."
When I was a kid, we still used the term criss cross apple sauce. I had no idea it was originally called Indian Style. And Spring Break, I never knew it was called Easter break, we called it Spring break when I was a kid. If all these were PC terms, then PC was around when I was a child.

I mean seriously, just be respectful and don't say anything racist or bigoted or anti semitis, etc. Also apologize and learn from it. This is just people wanting to be offensive and say anything they want and not face any social consequences. Well people have the freedom of speech to speak up and tell you how offensive and insulting you are and how racist it is for you to say it.

If a bunch of guys want to cancel me, they can go right ahead. I don't need misogynists anyway. I know other men won't cancel me. Works for me. If everyone got cancelled by the "right" people, no one would be talking about cancel culture.


If PC is used with integrity, that is fine.
If it is a means of control to service a personal emotion lust, it is not. 8)



Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 4:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.
Your assumption is that that person throwing you out has insight, enlightenment and integrity, rather than simply being capricious, and serving there own POV.
No, I am assuming that Alex's rules for this website should be respected as if Alex was present and enforcing them himself, even if someone else would believe that he is being capricious and serving his own point of view.


I didn't have Alex in mind.
Please don't misrepresent me.

I have been told, by XFG, that there are moderators less forgiving than those on WP.
I believe it. 8)

BTW, I was under the impression you didn't read my posts.
Huh. :scratch:
Even the best of us can be wrong, at times. :P :mrgreen:


Its true, on some sub-reddits you'll get banned if you claim the election was a fraud or express support of Trump.


Precisely. ;)

And you will get censored, at times, on *PLATFORMS* such as Twitter and Facebook, if you don't follow the left-wing narrative.
I thought only publishers could do that. :scratch:
Do people seriously believe those two don't have a left-wing bias? 8O



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17 Dec 2020, 4:49 pm

The only people whom I personally know, and whom I know also want to put restrictions on Free Speech, are either Christian Evangelicals, Conspiracy Theorists, Islamic Fundamentalists, Pro-Trump Republicans, Schizophrenics, Tyrannical Bosses, or some combination thereof.

The common threads among all of them seem to include: (1) More interest in being believed than in telling the truth, (2) The desire to control other people's thoughts and actions, and (3) The need to feel important.


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Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 4:52 pm

Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.
Your assumption is that that person throwing you out has insight, enlightenment and integrity, rather than simply being capricious, and serving there own POV.
No, I am assuming that Alex's rules for this website should be respected as if Alex was present and enforcing them himself, even if someone else would believe that he is being capricious and serving his own point of view.


I didn't have Alex in mind.
Please don't misrepresent me.

I have been told, by XFG, that there are moderators less forgiving than those on WP.
I believe it. 8)

BTW, I was under the impression you didn't read my posts.
Huh. :scratch:
Even the best of us can be wrong, at times. :P :mrgreen:


Its true, on some sub-reddits you'll get banned if you claim the election was a fraud or express support of Trump.


Precisely. ;)

And you will get censored, at times, on *PLATFORMS* such as Twitter and Facebook, if you don't follow the left-wing narrative.
I thought only publishers could do that. :scratch:
Do people seriously believe those two don't have a left-wing bias? 8O


There are also subreddits where you will get banned for so much as questioning Trumps decisions as well or encouraging people to wear masks. There are subreddits that will ban you if they suspect you are liberal or left leaning.

Also, idk about Twitter, but facebook is actually more of a right wing and mis-information and covid conspiracy cesspool these days.


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