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madbutnotmad
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23 Mar 2021, 4:02 pm

Going back to the use of 9 and 11.
I believe that the police in both the US and the UK refer to the same numerology.

In the UK, you used to have to call 999 in order to call the police.
Now, the number is 618618 (6 and 18 being satanic numbers too).

In the US 9-11...

It wouldn't surprise me if various members of the police were found to be practising Satanists.
As well as in politics.

Btw. I believe the choice for date which people rioted on were involved in politics!! !... for magickians
they "used the power of the magick in the number 6"

I really do think that is what is going on
and it is going on in a global scale
which is very sad
that the human race has come to this

but i guess its the easy path
so why wouldn't most people take the easy path
apart from not actually leading anyone to freedom or peace
just temporary worldly pleasure and pain

but most of us have that anyway



madbutnotmad
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23 Mar 2021, 4:38 pm

The Satanic Panic etc.

With regards to anyone that makes statements that ritual satanic abuse does not exist.

I think that would be a hard statement to make.

i would say that like most crimes, there are people who commit such crimes
against others who are sadistically motivated and who intentionally orchestrate such crimes on specific dates,
because the dates hold significance to themselves or their victims, whether they believe in magic/k or not.
And by doing so, does in fact make their crimes ritual in nature, and if they are committing the crimes or
orchestrating the crimes on particular dates because they subscribe to a belief / value system that associates
the worship of Satan on such dates, then I feel it would be fair to say that their crimes are then can be called
as ritual satanic abuse.

Such people exist and some of them live on island that I live on, which has had its fair share of abuse scandals.
In the 60s there was a serial abuser/molester active, that got the name "The Beast of Jersey" who was eventually convicted by the police for .... 13 crimes.... there was a ritual satanic abuse motivation behind his series of horrific crimes.

In the 80s, a particular family was convicted of domestic animal abuse after being caught subjecting several hundred domestic animals to ritual satanic abuse periodically.

A few years back, there was an international scandal of a rumoured child abuse scandal that also apparently had ritual satanist connotations and the leading DI investigator at the time, a man named Lenny Harper
claimed the police team had evidence that they had discovered human remains of children.

The scandal went on for several months, and made daily news for the DI and deputy chief of police to get suspended and for the police to do a complete turn around on their opinion of all the evidence to say that they had nothing.

Also a few years back there was another scandal that involved a recently deceased UK celebrity to being reported as being a serial pedofile, again, with links to Jersey child care. There also was speculation that this had a ritual aspect to the crimes.

I also in the past was involved in some UK political activism, which i believe made me a target for people in power to subject me to some of their ritual abuse, although i am too old to be molested. there is still plenty these douche bags can subject me to in a ritual satanic manner which i still do not like.

I am not saying that all people who are Satanists are evil.
I am not saying that all people who are Satanists commit ritual satanic abuse.

I am just saying that some people do.
In the same way that some people do not.

And some people are child molesters
as some people are not.

Like any religion, or belief system. Satanism per se will be made up of various different types with various different extremes.

As with Buddhism, as with Christianity, etc.
In fact, some of the Christians and Buddhists i have met probably should change religion, as they
naturally subject people to suffering just by being themselves

but hey, that's just what i think/
I, like you, have an opinion. :-)
I don't dictate to anyone to agree.
But i put my opinion out there.
Believe what you want, people generally do regardless as to what I say.
Especially if they are naturally opposed to everything that I say.



naturalplastic
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23 Mar 2021, 5:17 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
Going back to the use of 9 and 11.
I believe that the police in both the US and the UK refer to the same numerology.

In the UK, you used to have to call 999 in order to call the police.
Now, the number is 618618 (6 and 18 being satanic numbers too).

In the US 9-11...

It wouldn't surprise me if various members of the police were found to be practising Satanists.
As well as in politics.

Btw. I believe the choice for date which people rioted on were involved in politics!! !... for magickians
they "used the power of the magick in the number 6"



Are there any numbers that are NOT "Satanic"?????



Mona Pereth
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23 Mar 2021, 11:35 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
I am not saying Al Qaeda are satanists, however, I would say that somewhere along the line
those who committed the crimes where manipulated or provoked into committing the crimes on that exact day,
there may have been sleeper agents who infiltrated Al Qaeda who put the ideas in the heads of the crazzies,
I believe some really are that powerful and wealthy.

What is your evidence that there was any Western ("Satanist" or otherwise) involvement in planning the 9/11 attacks? (This topic should probably be a separate thread.)

As for the date, according to How jihadists schedule terrorist attacks by John Hudson, Foreign Policy, May 3, 2013:

Quote:
Sept. 11

Despite the widely circulated myth that al Qaeda selected the date 9/11 for its similarity to the emergency call number 9-1-1, the date was important to the terrorist network because of its relationship with Islam. As Lawrence Wright wrote in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book The Looming Tower, on Sept. 11, 1683, the King of Poland launched the battle that turned back the advance of Muslim armies. "For the next three hundred years, Islam would be overshadowed by the growth of Western Christian societies," Wright explained. Osama bin Laden saw the attack on the World Trade Center as Islam’s big comeback. The date has since been used by other terrorists, including the jihadists who struck the U.S. compound in Benghazi, killing U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans last year.

Back to your post:

madbutnotmad wrote:
There are those, such as Steve Bannon, who have the intelligence and the financial resources, as well as the devious intent, in order to orchestrate such a horrific ordeal. If you read up on Steve Bannon, you will also find out that he used to work in the Twin towers, is a ww2 military strategy fanatic, prescribes to a questionable belief system, had a good understanding as to what impact such a terrorist event would have on the economy (he was prior a hedge fund expert).

He also is someone who i regard as highly manipulative and socio-pathic. Good person to be President Trumps right hand man (or was he really the man in the background that pulled all the strings).

I'm certainly no fan of Steve Bannon, but what you've said above does not constitute evidence of his involvement in the 9/11 attack.

Ironically, apart from the twist of your belief in Bannon's involvement in 9/11, you are advocating what is otherwise the exact same grand conspiracy ideology that is also advocated by some of Trump's most fanatical followers, e.g. the Alex Jones crowd and the QAnon folks.

The whole idea that the world is controlled by "Satanists" is an idea that originated with the extreme right wing. And it's an idea that plays into the hands of the extreme right wing, especially the American religious right wing.

madbutnotmad wrote:
A lot of reality happens behind closed doors
covert to what the public see and are told

Yes, but that doesn't mean that every imaginable conspiracy claim is, therefore, automatically true.

madbutnotmad wrote:
The satanic thing has been going on in politics/business/entertainment for many many years.

Do you have any reasonable evidence for this claim?


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Mona Pereth
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24 Mar 2021, 12:26 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
Btw. I believe the choice for date which people rioted on were involved in politics!! !... for magickians they "used the power of the magick in the number 6"

The Capitol riot happened on January 6 because its purpose was to interfere with an event that always, according to decades-old law, takes place on January 6, namely the counting of the electoral votes by Congress.

See The 2020 Election: Provisions of the Constitution and U.S. Code (PDF):

Quote:
§15. Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and with-out argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision;and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, andt hose only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall con-currently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.


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Mona Pereth
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24 Mar 2021, 8:00 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
The Satanic Panic etc.

With regards to anyone that makes statements that ritual satanic abuse does not exist.

I think that would be a hard statement to make.

i would say that like most crimes, there are people who commit such crimes against others who are sadistically motivated

There do exist (some) people who commit crimes in the name of Satanism. But you are claiming much more than that. You are claiming the existence of vast and powerful conspiracies of such criminals.

madbutnotmad wrote:
and who intentionally orchestrate such crimes on specific dates, because the dates hold significance to themselves or their victims, whether they believe in magic/k or not.

Such people, to whatever extent they exist in today's world, are most likely trying to imitate the claims of "Satanic Ritual Abuse" conspiracy believers. They are not evidence of the existence of the alleged grand conspiracy.

madbutnotmad wrote:
And by doing so, does in fact make their crimes ritual in nature, and if they are committing the crimes or
orchestrating the crimes on particular dates because they subscribe to a belief / value system that associates
the worship of Satan on such dates, then I feel it would be fair to say that their crimes are then can be called
as ritual satanic abuse.

I would not use that term -- for reasons similar to why I would not say "Islamic terrorism" but, instead, "terrorism in the name of Islam," or some such phrase. I don't like using phrases that intrinsically reinforce harmful popular prejudices.

In the case of Satanism, the people harmed by the popular prejudice have included lots and lots of people other than just law-abiding Satanists. They included lots and lots of probably-innocent childcare workers accused of child sex abuse, and lots and lots of families broken up by "recovered memory" therapy, during the 1980's and early 1990's (and occasional flare-ups since then). Currently, here in the U.S.A., "Satanic ritual abuse" claims are central to the QAnon movement, which accuses all Democrats of being part of the alleged conspiracy.

In any case, the phrase "Satanic ritual abuse" (or permutations thereof) commonly refers to something much more specific than just any criminal who happens to be fond of Satanic imagery. It refers to allegations of well-organized cults/conspiracies said to commit child sex abuse and various atrocities in the context of a ritual.

madbutnotmad wrote:
Such people exist and some of them live on island that I live on, which has had its fair share of abuse scandals.
In the 60s there was a serial abuser/molester active, that got the name "The Beast of Jersey" who was eventually convicted by the police for .... 13 crimes.... there was a ritual satanic abuse motivation behind his series of horrific crimes.

Looked up "Beast of Jersey" just now. Edward Paisnel. Seems he acted alone. No indication of him being part of any cult or conspiracy.

madbutnotmad wrote:
In the 80s, a particular family was convicted of domestic animal abuse after being caught subjecting several hundred domestic animals to ritual satanic abuse periodically.

You haven't provided specific enough info for me to look this up.

madbutnotmad wrote:
A few years back, there was an international scandal of a rumoured child abuse scandal that also apparently had ritual satanist connotations and the leading DI investigator at the time, a man named Lenny Harper claimed the police team had evidence that they had discovered human remains of children.

The scandal went on for several months, and made daily news for the DI and deputy chief of police to get suspended and for the police to do a complete turn around on their opinion of all the evidence to say that they had nothing.

Googling "Lenny Harpe child abuse" led me to Jersey child abuse investigation 2008 (Wikidpedia) and How 'house of horror' investigation brought Jersey abuse to light by Steven Morris, Guardian, Mon 3 Jul 2017. Apparently a bunch of human bones were found that turned out to be centuries old, thus not evidence of any murders (within our lifetimes, at least). But apparently the investigation did end up leading to credible allegations of sex abuse at an orphanage. Anyhow, there's no connection with any kind of "Satanism" or any kind of "ritual," as far as I can tell.

madbutnotmad wrote:
Also a few years back there was another scandal that involved a recently deceased UK celebrity to being reported as being a serial pedofile, again, with links to Jersey child care. There also was speculation that this had a ritual aspect to the crimes.

Care to name the "recently deceased UK celebrity" or any other specifics?

madbutnotmad wrote:
I also in the past was involved in some UK political activism, which i believe made me a target for people in power to subject me to some of their ritual abuse, although i am too old to be molested. there is still plenty these douche bags can subject me to in a ritual satanic manner which i still do not like.

I'm sorry to hear that you are being harassed, by whoever. What sorts of things have they been doing to you, if you feel comfortable telling us about it?

Harassment of political enemies is a real problem in today's world, alas.

madbutnotmad wrote:
I am not saying that all people who are Satanists are evil.
I am not saying that all people who are Satanists commit ritual satanic abuse.

I am just saying that some people do.
In the same way that some people do not.

And some people are child molesters
as some people are not.

You're alleging a lot more than just that "some people" commit crimes in the name of Satanism, or with a "ritual" aspect.

madbutnotmad wrote:
Like any religion, or belief system. Satanism per se will be made up of various different types with various different extremes.

As with Buddhism, as with Christianity, etc.

Again, you're alleging a lot more than this.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 24 Mar 2021, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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24 Mar 2021, 8:11 am

@ Mona Pereth: Conspiracy theorists are more concerned with being believed than with telling the truth.  You would be better off to ignore the noise.



Mona Pereth
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24 Mar 2021, 11:52 am

Fnord wrote:
@ Mona Pereth: Conspiracy theorists are more concerned with being believed than with telling the truth.  You would be better off to ignore the noise.

Alas, the "conspiracy theory" in question is not just a single specific conspiracy claim; it's a full-blown grand conspiracy ideology. Such ideologies can be extremely dangerous when they get popular, e.g. the anti-Jewish grand conspiracy ideology that inspired the Nazis.

And the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" grand conspiracy ideology is getting popular again, in the form of QAnon.

So it's important to speak out against it, IMO.


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Fnord
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24 Mar 2021, 12:21 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
@ Mona Pereth: Conspiracy theorists are more concerned with being believed than with telling the truth.  You would be better off to ignore the noise.
Alas, the "conspiracy theory" in question is not just a single specific conspiracy claim; it's a full-blown grand conspiracy ideology. Such ideologies can be extremely dangerous when they get popular, e.g. the anti-Jewish grand conspiracy ideology that inspired the Nazis. And the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" grand conspiracy ideology is getting popular again, in the form of QAnon. So it's important to speak out against it, IMO.
Good points.  Ignoring such theories might be detrimental for us all.  The part about conspiracy theorists being more concerned with being believed than with telling the truth still stands, though.



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27 Mar 2021, 1:32 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
As a Satanist

Which branch of Satanism? LaVey (Church of Satan), Satanic Temple, theistic, or something else?

Sweetleaf wrote:
those numbers mean nothing, its just made up nonsense...some satanic themed metal bands still reference it just for fun or satanic artwork but it doesn't actually mean anything.

But yeah the idea satanists are going around ritually abusing people or somehow causing bad events to happen on dates involving so called satanic numbers is false, that is not what satanism is.

Agreed.

Alas the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare conspiracy claims are still very much around....


Satanic Temple...

But yeah like satanists don't generally go out and abuse animals, cannot say no one has used that as an excuse but it does not actually seem to be in line with any TST or CoS ideas. I mean I like CoS less than TST just because sometimes the CoS seems to have too much of a like social darwinism idea in their theology where as TST is much more welcoming and actually tries to kinda stand up to oppressive regulations.

But either way even TST and CoS satanists try to just get along with the world using their ideas of thinking and neither one is like a violent ideology. Its kinda just about taking charge of yourself and realizing you don't need like other people's approval to be who you are. LIke in the right context it can be healthy. And I mean most TST and CoS people are not about abusing animals like people that abuse and harm animals in the name of satanism are not looked highly upon in the satanic community.


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