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How "Moderates" Serve The Right

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funeralxempire
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21 Dec 2021, 11:20 pm

Dox47 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Saving it from itself how? He's not working to make the Democratic Party deliver jackshit for working people, he's a good example of someone who will deliver on corporate welfare but get cold feet when it comes to helping families.


Well, he's preventing them from passing a budget busting inflation boosting mess of a bill when they're already staring down electoral Armageddon next year, and he's blocking them from tearing down the filibuster, the only thing standing between them and ruin the next time the GOP has control, which McConnell has explicitly threatened.


I don't think they understand how weak they are, I'm pretty sure they've managed to alienate or at least disappoint every single demographic bloc that turned out strong in their favour in 2020.

They're the Washington Generals.


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21 Dec 2021, 11:27 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Conservatives: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it reverts us to a previous status quo!"
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking."

Moderates: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it is slow and carried out through means I consider respectable."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking too."

Progressives: "The status quo is awful, and trying to change it through means the establishment finds acceptable is a recipe for change not coming at all."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like you much less than the other guys."

A lot of truth but the big fallacy is the apparent assumption that all change is good. If all change is good any opposition to any change is a form of enabling the bad status quo. Otherwise, somebody has to say no or slow down. Slowing down gives people time to realize a mistake has been made and correct course and limit damage.

Strawman. Nobody thinks that all change is good. Also, the status quo is a moving train. Climate change keeps getting worse while doing nothing.


That is how I read what roronoa79 was saying. But I did write "apparently". Beyond roronoa79 I would be rich if I got money every time I read certain progressives saying resistance is futile to whatever we think is inevitable progress.


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funeralxempire
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21 Dec 2021, 11:33 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Conservatives: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it reverts us to a previous status quo!"
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking."

Moderates: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it is slow and carried out through means I consider respectable."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking too."

Progressives: "The status quo is awful, and trying to change it through means the establishment finds acceptable is a recipe for change not coming at all."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like you much less than the other guys."

A lot of truth but the big fallacy is the apparent assumption that all change is good. If all change is good any opposition to any change is a form of enabling the bad status quo. Otherwise, somebody has to say no or slow down. Slowing down gives people time to realize a mistake has been made and correct course and limit damage.

Strawman. Nobody thinks that all change is good. Also, the status quo is a moving train. Climate change keeps getting worse while doing nothing.


That is how I read what roronoa79 was saying. But I did write "apparently". Beyond roronoa79 I would be rich if I got money every time I read certain progressives saying resistance is futile to whatever we think is inevitable progress.


Both Marxists and Whigs are big on the idea of certain changes being inevitable, basically two different reads of the idea that 'the arc of history bends towards justice'.

Personally I'm not sure that's the case, people cause it to bend in that direction or allow it to bend away from that direction depending on how hard and how many of them are leaning on it.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


ASPartOfMe
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21 Dec 2021, 11:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Conservatives: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it reverts us to a previous status quo!"
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking."

Moderates: "Change to the status quo is bad, unless it is slow and carried out through means I consider respectable."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like your way of thinking too."

Progressives: "The status quo is awful, and trying to change it through means the establishment finds acceptable is a recipe for change not coming at all."
Those who benefit from the status quo: "I like you much less than the other guys."

A lot of truth but the big fallacy is the apparent assumption that all change is good. If all change is good any opposition to any change is a form of enabling the bad status quo. Otherwise, somebody has to say no or slow down. Slowing down gives people time to realize a mistake has been made and correct course and limit damage.

Strawman. Nobody thinks that all change is good. Also, the status quo is a moving train. Climate change keeps getting worse while doing nothing.


That is how I read what roronoa79 was saying. But I did write "apparently". Beyond roronoa79 I would be rich if I got money every time I read certain progressives saying resistance is futile to whatever we think is inevitable progress.


Both Marxists and Whigs are big on the idea of certain changes being inevitable, basically two different reads of the idea that 'the arc of history bends towards justice'.

Personally I'm not sure that's the case, people cause it to bend in that direction or allow it to bend away from that direction depending on how hard and how many of them are leaning on it.

The world needs both idealistic rebels who say FU we ARE going change the bad like it or not, and the stodgy old cumorgedons not so fast because my experience says you are going to lead us to disaster.


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magz
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22 Dec 2021, 10:54 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The world needs both idealistic rebels who say FU we ARE going change the bad like it or not, and the stodgy old cumorgedons not so fast because my experience says you are going to lead us to disaster.

A functional vehicle needs both engine and brakes.


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22 Dec 2021, 11:48 am

magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The world needs both idealistic rebels who say FU we ARE going change the bad like it or not, and the stodgy old cumorgedons not so fast because my experience says you are going to lead us to disaster.
A functional vehicle needs both engine and brakes.
But if you do not know where you are going, you will not know when you have arrived at your destination.



magz
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22 Dec 2021, 12:04 pm

It's a never ending journey but it's wise not to ride full speed into a tree.


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funeralxempire
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24 Dec 2021, 1:58 pm


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.