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cyberdad
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08 Jan 2022, 9:46 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Yep - most leftists simply pay lip service, in the education sector, at least. It is a sad situation because there are naive folk who will believe anything they are fed, from anyone they take an interest in, without the sufficient critical thinking skills to come to their own conclusions.


One of the worst myths promulgated by conservatives is that universities are breeding grounds for socialists. Conservative governments (whether in the US or Australia) claim universities are left leaning and create subversive socialists which is utter garbage.

Almost all university graduates enter professional positions and professionals are socially conservative pro-status quo. The only people who buy this nonsense propogated by the right wing media are conservatives who vote republican and have never been to university.

So why do they persist with this myth? because universities teach critical thinking and that graduates are more likely to scrutinise conservative BS and vote democrat (or the Australian version of the democrats which is the Australian labor party (ALP)). But even this isn't true. I think the number is 50% so probably just reflects the voting habits of the general population.



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08 Jan 2022, 10:04 pm

cyberdad wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
I've been to both countries, in India for some time, for work. I've never seen such poverty. I've never before seen people have so little, not even a shred of respect by theor society, so they sleep on the roadside, centimeters from truckbtires rolling by.
.


Since the thread is about the "typical" American and you are comparing Americans with the "typical" Indian or Chinese, it's worth noting that
a) the typical Indian or Chinese isn't actually living in poverty. Most have access to a home, electricity, water etc....
b) the typical American isn't that different as you imagine, most see homeless and poor/unemployed people on their streets and don't give a "shred" of respect for them either.

I'm sure you will give examples of Indians defecating in streets or the piles of garbage or the volume of people living in slums (all are valid differences) but in terms of human nature we aren't all that different.


oh, human nature is probably the same everywhere. I did take offense though with the previous post to which I was replying which described developing countries as "using America as toilet paper" ... I don't get how the person reaches this conclusion.

And, yeah, I'm European, I keep forgettung how dismal large parts of the US have become - yet weirdly, the previous poster was blaming George Soros, China and India rather than the Wall Street. It seems Wall Street is doing very, very well, while the rest of the country is becoming... uhm, as Trump called it "one of those s**thole countries", I guess.


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cyberdad
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08 Jan 2022, 10:28 pm

shlaifu wrote:
I did take offense though with the previous post to which I was replying which described developing countries as "using America as toilet paper" ... I don't get how the person reaches this conclusion..


Could he have mean't that "developing countries" don't appropriately respect the US?

There is a lot of anti-American sentiment throughout the third world but to be fair other countries (China, Pakistan, iran, Russia and North Korea) are likely much higher on the list of despised countries with aggressive foreign policy.

Europeans typically don't like Americans (most commonly stereotype them as uncultured) but then the relationship is hot and cold isn't it.



blitzkrieg
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08 Jan 2022, 10:41 pm

cyberdad wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Yep - most leftists simply pay lip service, in the education sector, at least. It is a sad situation because there are naive folk who will believe anything they are fed, from anyone they take an interest in, without the sufficient critical thinking skills to come to their own conclusions.


One of the worst myths promulgated by conservatives is that universities are breeding grounds for socialists. Conservative governments (whether in the US or Australia) claim universities are left leaning and create subversive socialists which is utter garbage.

Almost all university graduates enter professional positions and professionals are socially conservative pro-status quo. The only people who buy this nonsense propogated by the right wing media are conservatives who vote republican and have never been to university.

So why do they persist with this myth? because universities teach critical thinking and that graduates are more likely to scrutinise conservative BS and vote democrat (or the Australian version of the democrats which is the Australian labor party (ALP)). But even this isn't true. I think the number is 50% so probably just reflects the voting habits of the general population.


Yes, this is indeed a myth. I agree with all that you have said.



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08 Jan 2022, 10:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Could he have mean't that "developing countries" don't appropriately respect the US?
Sort of. I meant that China and India do things far worse than America does, but America gets all the blame. China produces much more coal-burning pollution than America does---just look at the smog in Shanghai---and yet America is the one forced to "stop climate change" :roll:. India cuts down vast areas of its forests to fuel its shoddy furnaces, and yet America gets blamed for "causing climate change" :roll:. So, those countries get a free pass for wrongdoing, along with other Third World-countries who the UN favors for no good reason, but America is the boogeyman in UN's eyes. Meanwhile, morons like Joe Biden fall for the ruse, China and India keep getting away with wrongdoing, and George Soros laughs all the way to the bank.

In before anyone says I'm not "woke" enough... My beef is with Chinese and Indian governments and the UN's favoritism of them. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with Chinese and Indian people. There, I clarified it! I really shouldn't have to, but in Biden's America, it's a necessary evil.


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cyberdad
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08 Jan 2022, 11:19 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Could he have mean't that "developing countries" don't appropriately respect the US?
Sort of. I meant that China and India do things far worse than America does, but America gets all the blame. China produces much more coal-burning pollution than America does---just look at the smog in Shanghai---and yet America is the one forced to "stop climate change" :roll:. India cuts down vast areas of its forests to fuel its shoddy furnaces, and yet America gets blamed for "causing climate change" :roll:. So, those countries get a free pass for wrongdoing, along with other Third World-countries who the UN favors for no good reason, but America is the boogeyman in UN's eyes. Meanwhile, morons like Joe Biden fall for the ruse, China and India keep getting away with wrongdoing, and George Soros laughs all the way to the bank.

In before anyone says I'm not "woke" enough... My beef is with Chinese and Indian governments and the UN's favoritism of them. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with Chinese and Indian people. There, I clarified it! I really shouldn't have to, but in Biden's America, it's a necessary evil.


Ok I agree with the gist of your post. And yes, western countries are facing a no-win dilemma with convincing India or China to go carbon neutral when both countries know it puts a major clamp on their development objectives to industrialize and become first world economies (when you add up the collective carbon emissions since the industrial revolution both the US and Europe are historically still responsible for 70-80% of all the garbage produced hitting the atmosphere, land and water - and developing countries know this).

But I think India and China are catching on that they will be impacted by global warming and are both planning for it. The US really should take the lead on this if they want others to follow. I do have a sinking feeling the 2030 targets currently being set are too little too late.



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09 Jan 2022, 12:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
I work in the higher education sector and I'm sorry to break it to you but 99% of academic leftists only pay lip service to leftist causes. They live in double story houses in expensive leafy suburbs, send their kids to expensive private schools, drive BMWs, drink expensive wines, fly business class. They inexorably tied to "westernism" more strongly than a rural redneck who votes for Trump.


While I'm sure the majority of them are in fact hypocrites, they also do spout anti-western, and specifically anti-American rhetoric often enough for it to be remarked upon, you might even call it a stereotype. Again though, I'm not sure what bearing you think your experience has on mine, you living on a different continent and all.


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09 Jan 2022, 1:09 am

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I work in the higher education sector and I'm sorry to break it to you but 99% of academic leftists only pay lip service to leftist causes. They live in double story houses in expensive leafy suburbs, send their kids to expensive private schools, drive BMWs, drink expensive wines, fly business class. They inexorably tied to "westernism" more strongly than a rural redneck who votes for Trump.


While I'm sure the majority of them are in fact hypocrites, they also do spout anti-western, and specifically anti-American rhetoric often enough for it to be remarked upon, you might even call it a stereotype. Again though, I'm not sure what bearing you think your experience has on mine, you living on a different continent and all.


Oh! believe me, I've met hundreds of American academics over the years both in Australia and in international conferences. They are very "bougie" upper middle class. The stereotypical "hippie" academic who wore flowers in their hair with head bands and flared pants teaching their students about the perils of capitalism is a fantasy created during the swinging 60s probably because many of the civil rights, pro-abortion, anti-war protests were staged in places like college campuses.

Since the 1980s almost the entire university sector in the US and the rest of the western world became commercialised where tenure as a professor was reliant on winning competitive grants determined by government agencies. Guess who set the agenda for university funding in the 80s? (oh wait you weren't born then were you!). From 1981-1989 Ronald Reagan was president and if you wanted to win funding for project proposals it had to go through funding agencies who were beholden to the apparatchiks in the republican party.

The commercialisation of the university sector has also influenced the kind of academics who are employed in universities. Unlike the silly stories about universities being a hotbed of socialist propaganda, the type of academics who survive and gain tenure plant their research firmly in the sphere of free market economics where the benefit of their research must serve a common agenda set by government agencies.



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09 Jan 2022, 1:28 am

Dox47 wrote:
While I'm sure the majority of them are in fact hypocrites, they also do spout anti-western, and specifically anti-American rhetoric often enough for it to be remarked upon, you might even call it a stereotype. Again though, I'm not sure what bearing you think your experience has on mine, you living on a different continent and all.

Useless without mentioning specifics. People on the right will call you anti-American just for pointing out certain things that are a just an uncomfortable reality... like government/CIA meddling in foreign affairs for blatantly imperialist reasons while pretending to be humanitarian. Also get called anti-American for not agreeing that America is the best country ever, or suggesting that things could be better.



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09 Jan 2022, 1:35 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:
Also get called anti-American for not agreeing that America is the best country ever, or suggesting that things could be better.


My favourite is seeing a tea party supporter protesting against obamacare displaying no teeth :lol:



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09 Jan 2022, 2:16 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:
Useless without mentioning specifics. People on the right will call you anti-American just for pointing out certain things that are a just an uncomfortable reality... like government/CIA meddling in foreign affairs for blatantly imperialist reasons while pretending to be humanitarian. Also get called anti-American for not agreeing that America is the best country ever, or suggesting that things could be better.


Hmm, do you actually have any right wing friends, or are you just going off second hand descriptions? Cause this sounds like a straw man right winger to me, if anything they tend to be more skeptical of the US government than normies are, they'll tell you all about various CIA skullduggery without sugarcoating it, though they might feel it was justified at the time. I mean, I know a lot of these people, you'll definitely see some jingoistic militarism, but not really the "we're perfect and never did anything wrong" stuff, that's more of a liberal's impression of a conservative than reality.


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09 Jan 2022, 2:58 am

Just want to mention to anyone claiming there is not terrible poverty in the U.S...perhaps you should look into 'mole people' and yes it is what it sounds like, people who literally live underground:



This of course is not the only example of poverty here. I for instance live in an apartment where if we hadn't gotten curtians me and my boyfriend would be freezing. We have crappy heating here and the windows will literally get frost and ice on the inside. Sure I am better off than people who don't even have a home or live in a shanty or even anyone in this apartment complex who couldn't afford curtains, but not by much. Like a big health expense or a big emergency coming up could mean me and my boyfriend end up on the streets.


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09 Jan 2022, 3:38 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Just want to mention to anyone claiming there is not terrible poverty in the U.S...perhaps you should look into 'mole people' and yes it is what it sounds like, people who literally live underground:



This of course is not the only example of poverty here. I for instance live in an apartment where if we hadn't gotten curtians me and my boyfriend would be freezing. We have crappy heating here and the windows will literally get frost and ice on the inside. Sure I am better off than people who don't even have a home or live in a shanty or even anyone in this apartment complex who couldn't afford curtains, but not by much. Like a big health expense or a big emergency coming up could mean me and my boyfriend end up on the streets.


There's also a great podcast called "invisible people" on Youtube which gives a fascinating insight into the lives of the 600,000 homeless people in the US



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09 Jan 2022, 4:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Just want to mention to anyone claiming there is not terrible poverty in the U.S...perhaps you should look into 'mole people' and yes it is what it sounds like, people who literally live underground:



This of course is not the only example of poverty here. I for instance live in an apartment where if we hadn't gotten curtians me and my boyfriend would be freezing. We have crappy heating here and the windows will literally get frost and ice on the inside. Sure I am better off than people who don't even have a home or live in a shanty or even anyone in this apartment complex who couldn't afford curtains, but not by much. Like a big health expense or a big emergency coming up could mean me and my boyfriend end up on the streets.


There's also a great podcast called "invisible people" on Youtube which gives a fascinating insight into the lives of the 600,000 homeless people in the US


Yeah but also I had to wonder, like with what that couple they interview last in the video say...I am sure some of that could be the craziness meth+ living underground when humans are not very subterranean creatures can do to the mind. Like nests of even deeper supbterranian people seems a bit far fetched and delusional....

However they did talk to a pregnant woman who they said maybe had a 10% chance of actually following through to get help and leave that place. So it just makes me wonder are children born down there, and well if so they wouldn't even have birth certificates. Like say that women they talked to successfully gives birth down there....that baby isn't going to get a birth certificate down there...so I guess it makes me wonder if there are like literally invisible people who don't even have a birth record even, due to circumstances like that.

I mean even police will not go deep into the tunnels, so who knows what all is really going on down there.


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09 Jan 2022, 4:40 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah but also I had to wonder, like with what that couple they interview last in the video say...I am sure some of that could be the craziness meth+ living underground when humans are not very subterranean creatures can do to the mind. Like nests of even deeper supbterranian people seems a bit far fetched and delusional.....


Yeah! this is a problem all over the western world but according to "Invisible People" the problem is much more stark in the US because you have 25% of the population at the poverty line who are classified as the working poor,

Many of the people interviewed are infact working (there was even this one dude who was a US military defence contractor who was living in a tent in Oakland California and using his vehicle to go to work). The "soft white underbelly" refers to the poor in America who survive in camper vans, trailer parks, combi vans, tents, shared accommodation, couch surfing. A considerable number are addicted to alcohol, fentanyl, weed, meth or heroin. A lot children of domestic violence or foster care end up on the streets or in shared accommodation.

I think that's why the podcast is called "invisible people" as they seem to be the forgotten people. We have them in Australia and New Zealand too.



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09 Jan 2022, 6:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah but also I had to wonder, like with what that couple they interview last in the video say...I am sure some of that could be the craziness meth+ living underground when humans are not very subterranean creatures can do to the mind. Like nests of even deeper supbterranian people seems a bit far fetched and delusional.....


Yeah! this is a problem all over the western world but according to "Invisible People" the problem is much more stark in the US because you have 25% of the population at the poverty line who are classified as the working poor,

Many of the people interviewed are infact working (there was even this one dude who was a US military defence contractor who was living in a tent in Oakland California and using his vehicle to go to work). The "soft white underbelly" refers to the poor in America who survive in camper vans, trailer parks, combi vans, tents, shared accommodation, couch surfing. A considerable number are addicted to alcohol, fentanyl, weed, meth or heroin. A lot children of domestic violence or foster care end up on the streets or in shared accommodation.

I think that's why the podcast is called "invisible people" as they seem to be the forgotten people. We have them in Australia and New Zealand too.


I have seen some of 'soft white underbelly' videos not that particular one, but one where they talked to a Appalachian(its a mountain range in the south and there is a lot of poverty around there) family where some inbreeding had happened. Their living conditions were pretty bad and it was obvious most of them had mental problems and some physical problems. But yeah they were living in just basically a shack out in the elements pretty far from much civilization.


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