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cyberdad
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31 Jan 2022, 5:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


Didn't "righties" whinge that the "squad" were also token picks? It's a funny double standard that Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell are outstanding appointments but any PoC picked on the democrat side are tokens



Kraichgauer
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31 Jan 2022, 5:40 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


Didn't "righties" whinge that the "squad" were also token picks? It's a funny double standard that Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell are outstanding appointments but any PoC picked on the democrat side are tokens


I could talk about hypocrisy, but I'd get attacked mercilessly if I did. :mrgreen:


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Brictoria
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31 Jan 2022, 6:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


Didn't "righties" whinge that the "squad" were also token picks? It's a funny double standard that Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell are outstanding appointments but any PoC picked on the democrat side are tokens


I could talk about hypocrisy, but I'd get attacked mercilessly if I did. :mrgreen:


It's interesting to see that there are still people who think that a person of "African-American" heritage can never have the skills or ability to be selected purely on merit\because of their skills\abilities, and so the only way they imagine the person of this background can be selected is if their skills\ability are ignored in favor of the person's race.

A perfect example of "The soft bigotry of low expectations"



kraftiekortie
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31 Jan 2022, 6:52 pm

I totally believe in an "even playing field."

I judge people on their merits----not on their ancestry or "genes."



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31 Jan 2022, 7:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
it was also bad when Reagan did it, though I'm not sure he ran on it as a campaign pledge like Biden did.


Bad Ronald Reagan, very bad!

There, you happy?

Kraichgauer wrote:
A funny thing happens when so called "affirmative action" and quotas are condemned, and talk about hiring only the best becomes policy. Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


You're assuming that bigotry is the reason, when it could just as easily be that there aren't as many highly qualified applicants from those demographics, something that can easily be seen when looking at things like the racial achievement gap, or for women, the lower numbers of them who pursue the sorts of AP math classes necessary to compete in the STEM fields. Lowering the bar is not the way to rectify this, finding and addressing the issues further back in the pipeline to these careers is the much better approach.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications. The consensus choice for the "best" nominee, for example, would have been Sri Srinivasan, an incredibly impressive judge who also would have been the first Asian appointed to the Supreme Court, but Biden disqualified him out of hand because of his color and gender, which again, sounds pretty racist and sexist.


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Dox47
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31 Jan 2022, 7:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Didn't "righties" whinge that the "squad" were also token picks?


No, the usual complaint about them is that they're morons (true), or that Omar and/or Tlaib are anti-Semites and anti American (debatable), and that they're race-baiters (true), not that they're tokens. The better critique is that they're fake progressives and controlled opposition for the Democratic mainstream, but that's not really a complaint you hear much on the right.


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31 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
it was also bad when Reagan did it, though I'm not sure he ran on it as a campaign pledge like Biden did.


Bad Ronald Reagan, very bad!

There, you happy?

Kraichgauer wrote:
A funny thing happens when so called "affirmative action" and quotas are condemned, and talk about hiring only the best becomes policy. Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


You're assuming that bigotry is the reason, when it could just as easily be that there aren't as many highly qualified applicants from those demographics, something that can easily be seen when looking at things like the racial achievement gap, or for women, the lower numbers of them who pursue the sorts of AP math classes necessary to compete in the STEM fields. Lowering the bar is not the way to rectify this, finding and addressing the issues further back in the pipeline to these careers is the much better approach.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications. The consensus choice for the "best" nominee, for example, would have been Sri Srinivasan, an incredibly impressive judge who also would have been the first Asian appointed to the Supreme Court, but Biden disqualified him out of hand because of his color and gender, which again, sounds pretty racist and sexist.


Bad Joe Biden, very bad!

There, you happy?



Brictoria
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31 Jan 2022, 7:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications.


The difference between telling the person selected:
"You, a black woman, are the best black woman out of all black women to be on the Supreme Court."
Compared to:
"You, a black woman, are the best person out of all potential candidates to be on the Supreme Court."



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31 Jan 2022, 7:20 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
it was also bad when Reagan did it, though I'm not sure he ran on it as a campaign pledge like Biden did.


Bad Ronald Reagan, very bad!

There, you happy?

Kraichgauer wrote:
A funny thing happens when so called "affirmative action" and quotas are condemned, and talk about hiring only the best becomes policy. Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


You're assuming that bigotry is the reason, when it could just as easily be that there aren't as many highly qualified applicants from those demographics, something that can easily be seen when looking at things like the racial achievement gap, or for women, the lower numbers of them who pursue the sorts of AP math classes necessary to compete in the STEM fields. Lowering the bar is not the way to rectify this, finding and addressing the issues further back in the pipeline to these careers is the much better approach.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications. The consensus choice for the "best" nominee, for example, would have been Sri Srinivasan, an incredibly impressive judge who also would have been the first Asian appointed to the Supreme Court, but Biden disqualified him out of hand because of his color and gender, which again, sounds pretty racist and sexist.


I actually think Reagan did the right thing there.
The fact remains, in most cases in the past, no black or female candidate for a post could pass mustard. And while there are plenty of people who have changed for the better since "the good old days," there are still plenty of others who have not, and some of those are in power.
Lower the bar?


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Kraichgauer
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31 Jan 2022, 7:23 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rarely are people of color or women hired on. Talk as they may about giving everyone an equal chance, those in authority pretty much stick with people who look like them, or are of the same sex, when it comes to filling positions.


Didn't "righties" whinge that the "squad" were also token picks? It's a funny double standard that Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell are outstanding appointments but any PoC picked on the democrat side are tokens


I could talk about hypocrisy, but I'd get attacked mercilessly if I did. :mrgreen:


It's interesting to see that there are still people who think that a person of "African-American" heritage can never have the skills or ability to be selected purely on merit\because of their skills\abilities, and so the only way they imagine the person of this background can be selected is if their skills\ability are ignored in favor of the person's race.

A perfect example of "The soft bigotry of low expectations"


Uh... no.
Plenty of qualified minority or female candidates for jobs have been passed by simply for who they are. It's a matter of overcoming bigotry, not expecting lesser results.


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31 Jan 2022, 7:25 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications.


The difference between telling the person selected:
"You, a black woman, are the best black woman out of all black women to be on the Supreme Court."
Compared to:
"You, a black woman, are the best person out of all potential candidates to be on the Supreme Court."


Too often, that black woman hadn't been selected at all, no matter how qualified, simply because she is a black woman.


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Dox47
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31 Jan 2022, 9:05 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:

Bad Joe Biden, very bad!

There, you happy?


Well, as I'm not the one making a whataboutism argument to excuse racist and sexist discrimination, no, no I'm not.

Maybe I'm a bit happy that Joe Biden is making such an unpopular move so publicly, anything that diminishes the Democrats generally and their progressive wing in particular is a win for me, so there is that.


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cyberdad
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31 Jan 2022, 9:23 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says a black female judge can't competently sit on the court? Probably would be a lot more competent than Amy Barret, who's an evangelical crackpot with limited experience on the bench.


Putting aside your typically ignorant potshot at that imminently qualified ACB, no one said a black female judge wouldn't be competent, what was said was that by announcing up front that he was only considering black women, Biden forever put his eventual nominee under a cloud of suspicion that she wasn't in fact the most qualified choice, as he'd eliminated everyone not of that particular demographic without regard to their qualifications.


The difference between telling the person selected:
"You, a black woman, are the best black woman out of all black women to be on the Supreme Court."
Compared to:
"You, a black woman, are the best person out of all potential candidates to be on the Supreme Court."


If quotas weren't introduced in the first place this is the conversation that would be taking place
"You, a white man, are the best white man out of all white men who make up the only eligible candidates to be on the Supreme Court"



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31 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I actually think Reagan did the right thing there.


I don't, but then again I'm consistent with my principles, regardless of who is in office.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact remains, in most cases in the past, no black or female candidate for a post could pass mustard. And while there are plenty of people who have changed for the better since "the good old days," there are still plenty of others who have not, and some of those are in power.


The Supreme Court is not a jobs program, it is the body that determines the law of the land, and thus the most important qualification should be the best available legal mind, regardless of the color and gender of the body said mind happens to occupy.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lower the bar?


Picking someone who isn't the most qualified choice due to their identity, you've lowered the bar because you're picking someone who isn't the best, but the best of a particular demographic.


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Dox47
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31 Jan 2022, 9:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Too often, that black woman hadn't been selected at all, no matter how qualified, simply because she is a black woman.


So, you want to fight racism with racism?


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Dox47
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31 Jan 2022, 9:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
If quotas weren't introduced in the first place this is the conversation that would be taking place
"You, a white man, are the best white man out of all white men who make up the only eligible candidates to be on the Supreme Court"


You don't think minorities are capable of excelling without set asides?


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