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How much longer until mass shootings make us hermits?

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SpiralingCrow
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07 Jun 2022, 5:08 am

Mikah wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
How many mass murderers were also meth users?. Or any kind of drug user?


Almost all of them are on something. It's usually marijuana. https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

naturalplastic wrote:
Ive never heard drugs linked to the Columbine killers, or Sandy Hook, or the Las Vegas shooter, etc.


These were all potentially linked to mind-altering legally prescribed drugs: - Columbine to anti-depressants, drugs known to cause insane and suicidal behaviour in a minority of users. The Las Vegas shooter had copious amounts of Valium in his blood - Valium users usually take other similar drugs. Sandy Hook is a bit murkier - it was announced that Lanza had no drugs in his system at the time of the shooting but for some reason authorities refused to release his psychiatric/drug history, so a bit of an unknown.

naturalplastic wrote:
And historically drugs were even less controlled than guns in American history. In the Nineteenth Century you could buy patent medicine off of the shelf that contained opium, or cocaine.


True, but usage of illegal drugs / prescription of legal mind-altering drugs have both rocketed to the moon in recent decades.


More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.



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07 Jun 2022, 5:35 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.


This is the official line, but I am a bit skeptical. It is very convenient for certain interests to believe and propagate this idea. It's a bit like tobacco companies claiming that their product does not cause lung cancer, but their customers are in fact smoking self-adminstering cigarettes to treat their pre-existing lung conditions...


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SpiralingCrow
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07 Jun 2022, 5:59 am

Mikah wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.


This is the official line, but I am a bit skeptical. It is very convenient for certain interests to believe and propagate this idea. It's a bit like tobacco companies claiming that their product does not cause lung cancer, but their customers are in fact smoking self-adminstering cigarettes to treat their pre-existing lung conditions...



Sure certain psychological medications can have a contraindicated effect on certain individuals and may make violent behavior worse. But c'mon marijuana causing mass shootings? There is enough history there to know it generally does not cause such behavior. And valium, maybe if someone can get their fix they may rob a pharmacy but a mass shooting? That won't get them more valium because that is there primary goal, to get more. When they are high on valium they are more likely to sink into the couch than shoot anyone up.



kraftiekortie
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07 Jun 2022, 6:02 am

I’ve known some pretty hostile people who were smoking joints.

Then again, it could be said that those who are smoking joints aren’t “high” yet.



Mikah
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07 Jun 2022, 12:23 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
But c'mon marijuana causing mass shootings? There is enough history there to know it generally does not cause such behavior.


Generally, maybe, but it only takes a small minority to make headlines. You can ask anyone who works in mental health if they have noticed a correlation between extreme, random violence and cannabis usage. In those sectors the opinion is quite common, if unfashionable. Check out this site for a large number of worrying recent incidents in the UK and elsewhere: https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/ . You can at least say that cannabis does not always make people lazy and hungry. Sometimes it leads to rape, murder and biting your dog's nose off and there may well be a causative link.


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SpiralingCrow
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07 Jun 2022, 12:34 pm

And that minority of people you speak of can very well have underlying mental health issues that were exacerbated by drug use. In this instance is it the drug use that's the main problem or the underlying mental health issues?



Mikah
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07 Jun 2022, 12:41 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
And that minority of people you speak of can very well have underlying mental health issues that were exacerbated by drug use. In this instance is it the drug use that's the main problem or the underlying mental health issues?


As I said, this is not certain, far from proved and very convenient for people who want to profit from legalising certain drugs. It is not crazy to wonder if a mind-altering drug might alter the mind in a negative way.


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SpiralingCrow
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07 Jun 2022, 12:45 pm

Depends on the mind. In the case of mass shootings though. It seems clear these are people with some kind of mental health issues.



kraftiekortie
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07 Jun 2022, 1:05 pm

It’s a helluva more than just pot!



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07 Jun 2022, 9:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\ More likely the easy availability of meth.It’s wasn’t around when I was in high school.Weed and pharmaceuticals were.Looking at my county’s jail roster, most violent offenders also have a meth possession charge.
However they are probably smoking pot AND meth.They also like to abuse Xanax so they can sleep.
https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewc ... cjpeerpubs


How many mass murderers were also meth users?. Or any kind of drug user?

Ive never heard drugs linked to the Columbine killers, or Sandy Hook, or the Las Vegas shooter, etc.

And historically drugs were even less controlled than guns in American history. In the Nineteenth Century you could buy patent medicine off of the shelf that contained opium, or cocaine.

The Manson family.Chock full of assorted drugs.
Drugs can be a factor, obviously not every time .
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1235872
https://amp.kansas.com/news/local/crime ... 64917.html


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07 Jun 2022, 11:02 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
Mikah wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
How many mass murderers were also meth users?. Or any kind of drug user?


Almost all of them are on something. It's usually marijuana. https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

naturalplastic wrote:
Ive never heard drugs linked to the Columbine killers, or Sandy Hook, or the Las Vegas shooter, etc.


These were all potentially linked to mind-altering legally prescribed drugs: - Columbine to anti-depressants, drugs known to cause insane and suicidal behaviour in a minority of users. The Las Vegas shooter had copious amounts of Valium in his blood - Valium users usually take other similar drugs. Sandy Hook is a bit murkier - it was announced that Lanza had no drugs in his system at the time of the shooting but for some reason authorities refused to release his psychiatric/drug history, so a bit of an unknown.

naturalplastic wrote:
And historically drugs were even less controlled than guns in American history. In the Nineteenth Century you could buy patent medicine off of the shelf that contained opium, or cocaine.


True, but usage of illegal drugs / prescription of legal mind-altering drugs have both rocketed to the moon in recent decades.


More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.


There is a strong connection between marijuana and schizophrenia. 8)



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07 Jun 2022, 11:05 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
Mikah wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.


This is the official line, but I am a bit skeptical. It is very convenient for certain interests to believe and propagate this idea. It's a bit like tobacco companies claiming that their product does not cause lung cancer, but their customers are in fact smoking self-adminstering cigarettes to treat their pre-existing lung conditions...



Sure certain psychological medications can have a contraindicated effect on certain individuals and may make violent behavior worse. But c'mon marijuana causing mass shootings? There is enough history there to know it generally does not cause such behavior. And valium, maybe if someone can get their fix they may rob a pharmacy but a mass shooting? That won't get them more valium because that is there primary goal, to get more. When they are high on valium they are more likely to sink into the couch than shoot anyone up.


Quote:
Marijuana is one of the most abused substances in the world. Marijuana is getting legalized around the world. So, it is crucial to understand its effect on our mental health. Its impact on the schizophrenia spectrum needs our special attention. Even though marijuana has been around for a long time, its exact effects are still unknown. Schizophrenia is a chronic illness affecting approximately 20 million people worldwide. Schizophrenia and cannabis seem to have a close relationship, and we want to explore this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7442038/



Pepe
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07 Jun 2022, 11:08 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
And that minority of people you speak of can very well have underlying mental health issues that were exacerbated by drug use. In this instance is it the drug use that's the main problem or the underlying mental health issues?


If marijuana pushes some people over the edge, perhaps people should avoid it and not play "Lucky Dip".



Pepe
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07 Jun 2022, 11:10 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
Depends on the mind. In the case of mass shootings though. It seems clear these are people with some kind of mental health issues.


I don't think you can draw this conclusion.
The drug could simply alter the person's perception of reality in a negative way, without there being a need for inherent mental illness.



flamingshorts
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08 Jun 2022, 3:44 am

I not really one foot in, one foot out on these ideas. However the limits of my thinking might not be the limits of reality.

Why were people triggered by these shoes. They're being forced to show their cards



naturalplastic
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08 Jun 2022, 5:24 am

Pepe wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
Mikah wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
How many mass murderers were also meth users?. Or any kind of drug user?


Almost all of them are on something. It's usually marijuana. https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

naturalplastic wrote:
Ive never heard drugs linked to the Columbine killers, or Sandy Hook, or the Las Vegas shooter, etc.


These were all potentially linked to mind-altering legally prescribed drugs: - Columbine to anti-depressants, drugs known to cause insane and suicidal behaviour in a minority of users. The Las Vegas shooter had copious amounts of Valium in his blood - Valium users usually take other similar drugs. Sandy Hook is a bit murkier - it was announced that Lanza had no drugs in his system at the time of the shooting but for some reason authorities refused to release his psychiatric/drug history, so a bit of an unknown.

naturalplastic wrote:
And historically drugs were even less controlled than guns in American history. In the Nineteenth Century you could buy patent medicine off of the shelf that contained opium, or cocaine.


True, but usage of illegal drugs / prescription of legal mind-altering drugs have both rocketed to the moon in recent decades.


More likely the drugs, whether given by professional or self administered, were trying to treat underlying psychological issues. It was those psyche issues that were the real cause of the violence. Certainly not marijuana or valium. Those are feel good drugs. People use those to relax and feel calm not go on shooting sprees.


There is a strong connection between marijuana and schizophrenia. 8)

Yes...his drug theory has problems. First off is what you're all saying. The chicken-egg question. Do folks dose themselves (or get dosed by licensed physicians) because they are nuts, or do they go nuts because they use (either under the counter, or over the counter)drugs? BTW I know a guy who is an example of both, but he is not a spree shooter.

Second- other industrialized countries have hash, and XTC, and evey other illegal drug that we have, and they have the same legal but controlled psychotropic meds that docs prescribe- just like the US does. But other countries dont have mass shootings as often as we do.