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Dealing with lack of Jesus the Messiah in Israel

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QFT
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03 Oct 2022, 7:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
But if you are not Jewish, would they even allow you into kibbutz?
.


From the 1940s kibbutz mainly attracted young jews on Aliya. However from the 1960s young idealistic westerners starting coming in droves and they were enthusiastic and made to feel welcome.


But some Westerners are Jewish, and you say you aren't. So maybe Jewish Westerners are allowed while other ones aren't. At least thats what I would expect.



cyberdad
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03 Oct 2022, 7:53 am

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
But if you are not Jewish, would they even allow you into kibbutz?
.


From the 1940s kibbutz mainly attracted young jews on Aliya. However from the 1960s young idealistic westerners starting coming in droves and they were enthusiastic and made to feel welcome.


But some Westerners are Jewish, and you say you aren't. So maybe Jewish Westerners are allowed while other ones aren't. At least thats what I would expect.


Yes, I think that might be correct, Kibbutz near the west bank or Gaza might be run exclusively by Jewish people. Those areas are more prone to incursions/terrorism so might be off limits to foreigners.



kraftiekortie
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03 Oct 2022, 7:57 am

Some kibbutzum allow non-Jewish people in them. Some only allow Jewish people.

The only way to know....is to inquire into them.



QFT
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03 Oct 2022, 7:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
But if you are not Jewish, would they even allow you into kibbutz?
.


From the 1940s kibbutz mainly attracted young jews on Aliya. However from the 1960s young idealistic westerners starting coming in droves and they were enthusiastic and made to feel welcome.


But some Westerners are Jewish, and you say you aren't. So maybe Jewish Westerners are allowed while other ones aren't. At least thats what I would expect.


Yes, I think that might be correct, Kibbutz near the west bank or Gaza might be run exclusively by Jewish people. Those areas are more prone to incursions/terrorism so might be off limits to foreigners.


I wasn't even talking about terrorism. I was talking about Jewish culture where they don't allow non-Jews in.

And its not about "foreigners". Some foreigners are Jewish. In fact, they have what is called "right of return" where foreigners that are Jewish automatically get granted citizenship in Israel.

So since kibbutz is a Jewish endeavor, I would assume that they would allow Jews (both citizens and foreigners) but won't allow non-Jews. But I didn't look any of it up, thats just an assumption based on the general knowledge of how the Jews operate.



QFT
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03 Oct 2022, 8:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Some kibbutzum allow non-Jewish people in them.


That is quite interesting? Do you have any examples? Do they put any number limits on non-Jews? Are non-Jews treated as second class citizens and/or just guests?



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03 Oct 2022, 8:06 am

The only way to know----is to research the particular kibbutz.

Unless one really is admitted to a kibbutz, and works in one, one really doesn't know the nature of the kibbutz, except through second-hand accounts.



klanka
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03 Oct 2022, 8:44 am

Image

Kibbutz is an off brand version of this?


(kidding)


Anyway , Israel needs some more evangelists to go over there



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03 Oct 2022, 11:31 am

I spent about a month at a kibbutz almost 50 years ago. When I have time I may offer some detailed observations. I forget how the thread got diverted to this topic (and away from Jesus) but one impression I have is that kibbutzim are probably way off most modern Israelis' radar.


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naturalplastic
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03 Oct 2022, 12:06 pm

MaxE wrote:
I spent about a month at a kibbutz almost 50 years ago. When I have time I may offer some detailed observations. I forget how the thread got diverted to this topic (and away from Jesus) but one impression I have is that kibbutzim are probably way off most modern Israelis' radar.


Yes.

Back around 1970 only about 3 or 4 percent of the Israeli population ever lived on kibbutzim. Thats was probably the zenith of Kibbutz movement. Its probably less by both absolute number, and less as a proportion of the Israeli population now.



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03 Oct 2022, 3:39 pm

QFT wrote:
I wasn't even talking about terrorism. I was talking about Jewish culture where they don't allow non-Jews in.
.


In the 1960s even israelis were caught up with the idealism of the times and the creation of what were called utopian communities. But kraftie is correct, not all the kibbutzim allowed non-jews.

When the Yom Kippur war broke out in 1967 it created an atmosphere where it suddenly became quite dangerous for foreign nationals.

My interest at the time in single celled proteins for self-sustaining water treatment/food protein for which the Israelis were world leaders in 1980s as they were trialled in kibbutzim. I thought my background might be useful.



naturalplastic
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04 Oct 2022, 5:55 am

Noamx hasnt returned to his thread yet.



Matrix Glitch
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04 Oct 2022, 7:55 am

There are numerous Christian churches in Jerusalem. Many Christians visit the prominent places in Israel that are talked about in the New Testament. It shouldn't be difficult to find out where all you can meet up with Christians in Israel via the internet.



naturalplastic
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04 Oct 2022, 9:44 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
There are numerous Christian churches in Jerusalem. Many Christians visit the prominent places in Israel that are talked about in the New Testament. It shouldn't be difficult to find out where all you can meet up with Christians in Israel via the internet.

Thats all already been covered on this thread. He said that the Net isnt good enough. He wants face to face talk with non Jews, or Christians, or whatever. Others have suggested that he interact with Christian tourists. And you're right that there are SOME Christians (many Palestinian Arabs for example) in Israel.



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04 Oct 2022, 11:26 am

klanka wrote:
Anyway , Israel needs some more evangelists to go over there


That seems a little condescending. Why would they need people to go there and lie to them about some dead heretic?


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04 Oct 2022, 11:31 am

QFT wrote:
There are plenty agnostics and atheists in Israel. Which is one of the double standards Jews have. They are just fine if their fellow Jews reject God altogether. But if one of their fellow Jews believes in Jesus then suddenly its a huge problem.


It's not really that unreasonable. Think of it like the difference between a transparency value and a hue value. They can conceive of agnostics and atheists as the right hue, just closer to transparent.

Converts to Christianity or Islam or whatever aren't more transparent, they're the wrong hue by choice, essentially traitors who have chosen another faith.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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04 Oct 2022, 12:36 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
klanka wrote:
Anyway , Israel needs some more evangelists to go over there


That seems a little condescending. Why would they need people to go there and lie to them about some dead heretic?


Yes.
And its not as if Israel isnt already swamped by zillions of American Fundy End-times fanatics every tourist season already.