Is the US as tolerant as the UK ?

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The_Walrus
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03 May 2023, 5:18 pm

Nades wrote:

Again, actual evidence? I'm sure any study you find will fall flat on its face if I find the serious assault and murder rate of ethnic minorities in supposedly "tolerant" cities.

You're in more danger being black in London than you are in a Welsh mining town.......by a long margin.

Given that I cited some "actual evidence" showing that there is more racism in rural areas, I am struggling to take your request for more in good faith.

Yes, one downside of cities is that there is more violence. But it is less likely to be racially motivated than in rural areas. People in cities are more accepting of difference. If you're one of the few ethnic minority people in a rural area then you'll be treated much worse than in a city, where people are generally more tolerant, less ignorant, and less small-minded. The UKIP voters, the National Front members, they tend to be found in more rural areas. There's a reason there's so much sneering about "metropolitan liberals" and never "country liberals". You can see it in the results of any election, and most clearly in the Brexit referendum. Urban people are more open to new ideas and different people.

Nades
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04 May 2023, 5:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

Nades wrote:

The study is genuinely not very good with no effort to control variables and I mean literally zero and the rest is anecdotal, speculative with very little on actual racist attacks. The word "attack" was mentioned just four times in the entire study. They don't even bother into looking what a hate crime is or the effectiveness of the police by area. The Met police are known to be pretty dreadful recently and almost unending gross misconduct sackings, especially with racism in their own ranks is happening now.

Perhaps the only reason racist crime has reduced in London is because the police are just not very good at even identifying it, or dare I say, simply don't care as much as they did given the draining of the swamp they're doing?

They even mention mosques being attacked in rural areas which is unusual as mosques (at least obvious ones) never are in rural areas. I don't know of a single mosque in the Welsh valleys and we have several largish towns here. Do they even know what rural is? They also mentioned North Wales which I wouldn't describe as rural as the coastline in particular has several decent sized towns.

Every time I read of a mosque attack....it's in a large diverse city too along with attacks on black people. Just a week or so ago a man from Birmingham was setting Muslims on fire in London and Birmingham (or Manchester) and is currently in prison awaiting trial. Literally none of this stuff happens here.

Literally don't get the study one bit.

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04 May 2023, 6:38 pm

Nades wrote:

They even mention mosques being attacked in rural areas which is unusual as mosques (at least obvious ones) never are in rural areas. I don't know of a single mosque in the Welsh valleys and we have several largish towns here. Do they even know what rural is? They also mentioned North Wales which I wouldn't describe as rural as the coastline in particular has several decent sized towns.

What do you class as an obvious mosque?

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Nades
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05 May 2023, 4:59 am

Recidivist wrote:

Nades wrote:

What do you class as an obvious mosque?

One that's clearly visible as a mosque from the outside. The image you shared shows the lack of mosques in Wales. Of the few, many are in cities and by the looks of it there are even gaps spanning half of Wales between mosques. Not many at all and in my local area (the valleys) there only seems to be one that I'm yet to see in person.

There was an application to build a mosque in a second valley town recently but that was turned down because it was a listed building and also partially collapsed. Not surprised by the council's decision seeing he hasn't even bothered paying the council emergency works fees after chunks of the building started to fall into the street.

That being said, people here don't seem to have any issues with the Muslim community. Almost nobody here even knows where their mosques are so they're not doing a very good job of being hate filled.

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05 May 2023, 10:06 am

Nades wrote:

One that's clearly visible as a mosque from the outside.

I only know of one like that and it's in Cardiff where a lot of my football mates attend.

Quote:

The image you shared shows the lack of mosques in Wales. Of the few, many are in cities and by the looks of it there are even gaps spanning half of Wales between mosques. Not many at all and in my local area (the valleys) there only seems to be one that I'm yet to see in person.

The gaps spanning half of wales is where sheep live (not a lot of people) , and I'm not sure that they've converted to Allah yet although I have had Halal kebabs.

Quote:

There was an application to build a mosque in a second valley town recently but that was turned down because it was a listed building and also partially collapsed. Not surprised by the council's decision seeing he hasn't even bothered paying the council emergency works fees after chunks of the building started to fall into the street.

That being said, people here don't seem to have any issues with the Muslim community. Almost nobody here even knows where their mosques are so they're not doing a very good job of being hate filled.

Nearly all mosques in Wales are conversions from older buildings , I only know of one , possibly two purpose built mosque (both in Cardiff).

When I lived in Cardiff I saw no issues with Muslims (I played football for a Muslim team 'Cardiff United' & teams with mostly muslims 'Butetown'). Having said that, one of the Cardiff mosques did have 3 attempts of arson ( but two of these attacks seemed dubious and were maybe insurance claims )

Where I currently live there is no mosque but the fast food shops are run by Turkish Muslims.

I found this article on Wales online which suggests the Berea Mosque is the only mosque in the valley https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... l-16220109

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Nades
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05 May 2023, 10:27 am

Recidivist wrote:

Nades wrote:

One that's clearly visible as a mosque from the outside.

I only know of one like that and it's in Cardiff where a lot of my football mates attend.

Quote:

The gaps spanning half of wales is where sheep live (not a lot of people) , and I'm not sure that they've converted to Allah yet although I have had Halal kebabs.

Quote:

I've seen one in Cardiff too. I think the lack of a Muslim population doesn't warrant the building of a lot of mosques here.

On the business side too, I hear increasingly good reputation with foreign small service businesses here. If a god Turkish barbers opens up or a place that makes great Chinese food, word spreads fast and people start throwing money hand over fist at them if they're that good and the owners can start to become quite well off. Recently a chain of Turkish barber shops owned by the same guy (of all things) have spring up in my area.

Arson is dubious too. It seems that flames are aware whether a property is commercial, religious or residential and always has the manners to not flare up in residential property. Almost all fires happen in non-residential property in my area of South Wales (which gets suspicious if it's a night club, internet cafe....or religious building.

I can smell the smoke of an insurance job from a mile away now. One unsuccessful grubby club in Caerphilly that I won't name went up in flames recently.

Actual hate crimes just don't seem to be much of a thing here. If it was true that areas like ours were genuinely racist, surely this racism will be a lot more conspicuous given the fact minorities would be heavily outnumbered and outgunned by a huge white demographic? I only hear serious racism happening in diverse cities where given the much higher population of minorities, should surely be less right?

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05 May 2023, 10:47 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Neither the US nor the UK are as multicultural as Canada.

It depends on how you compare, but I've never noticed an appreciable difference when I've gone to Canada, just bagged milk, metric signs and a slightly different accent. The US has far more multilingual residents, though, and that's probably partially because we don't have an official language that has to be on everything produced for the public.

It will be scary/exciting to see whether Quebec or the Southern States leave their respective country first, though.

goldfish21
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05 May 2023, 1:30 pm

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05 May 2023, 2:15 pm

^ Ha, very familiar. You'd love some of the roads round here GF , they are a motorcyclist wet dream.

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IsabellaLinton
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05 May 2023, 2:25 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Neither the US nor the UK are as multicultural as Canada.

I've never bought bagged milk in my life.
Metric signs - Yes
Metric measurement used for everything - No
Metric confusion - Yes
Accent - Mine's Yorkshire mixed with Boston
My kids sound like regular American movie voices
Our only official language is English
The only bilingual province is New Brunswick
Did you go to New Brunswick?
The US has far more residents, period, of any language.
Your residents are bilingual because you don't have bilingual packaging?

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goldfish21
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05 May 2023, 2:32 pm

Recidivist wrote:

^ Ha, very familiar. You'd love some of the roads round here GF , they are a motorcyclist wet dream.

Are they, though?

We have this:

https://www.google.ca/search?client=saf ... =548&dpr=2

Which is extremely popular for motorcyclists of all kinds of bikes. Unfortunately also statistically quite dangerous and lethal, despite the straightening out of much of it in preparation for the 2010 Winter Olympics.. it’s still a magnet for motorcycle accidents due to the huge numbers of people riding it on nice days - there were 3 critical accidents in less than 48 hours a day or so back, including a fatality I believe. Start of the season.. first sunny day or two and vroom vroom crash.

It is truly a magnificent highway. Unmatched scenery - mountains, ocean, waterfalls, eagles flying overhead etc. I’ve ridden it in both directions on 700km day trips in a huge loop through the mountains & valley. (Looped the opposite direction each of those rides - first time out through the valley and back down the mountains, second time up the mountains and around to the valley and home.)

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goldfish21
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05 May 2023, 2:34 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Neither the US nor the UK are as multicultural as Canada.

We had bagged milk back in the mid 1980’s but I haven’t seen it since.

Canada is a bilingual country with two official languages; English & French. Hence the package labelling.

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05 May 2023, 2:43 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Are they, though?

I don't ride but know people who do and they loves it. I live really close to a Hells Angels Chapter but never seen them ride convoy through the mountains so who knows.

Quote:

We have this:

https://www.google.ca/search?client=saf ... =548&dpr=2

Very nice.

Yeah, unfortunately they are quite a few bike accidents on the mountain roads

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IsabellaLinton
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05 May 2023, 2:51 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Neither the US nor the UK are as multicultural as Canada.

We had bagged milk back in the mid 1980’s but I haven’t seen it since.

Canada is a bilingual country with two official languages; English & French. Hence the package labelling.

Yes English and French are "official languages" legally.
That doesn't mean people across the country speak French or are bilingual.
NB is the only bilingual province.
Many people seem to think they'll need French to go anywhere, like BC or PEI.
You'd be more likely to need Chinese or Punjabi in BC.

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funeralxempire
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05 May 2023, 2:55 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Neither the US nor the UK are as multicultural as Canada.

We had bagged milk back in the mid 1980’s but I haven’t seen it since.

Canada is a bilingual country with two official languages; English & French. Hence the package labelling.

In Brampton, Punjabi would come in handy. :mrgreen:

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goldfish21
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05 May 2023, 2:59 pm

The only advantage to speaking French in BC is if you want a federal government job of any kind. Priority to bilingual people that speak the second official language. Other than that, maybe as a public school french teacher for the bit of mandatory French language classes we all have to take.

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