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TwilightPrincess
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05 Nov 2023, 12:03 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Come on. Think we are getting no where. What is happening today was predicted many years ago way before I was born, and things are going to get worse as we reach a point where if time wasn't cut short no one would survive.

Easy to say all this but not so easy to live in it.

Okay, that’s fine. People can believe what they want to. In my opinion, it makes it even stranger that he would choose to heal some and not others. It’s quite cruel, especially taking into account the suffering of children.

The Biblical reason why God allows suffering when he could supposedly stop it was never good enough for me and was a source of great inner turmoil when I was still a believer, but that’s a separate issue.

My main problem with the belief in faith healing is that it kills people. I guess it would be harmless if people still sought appropriate medical care, though.


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Mountain Goat
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05 Nov 2023, 12:13 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Come on. Think we are getting no where. What is happening today was predicted many years ago way before I was born, and things are going to get worse as we reach a point where if time wasn't cut short no one would survive.

Easy to say all this but not so easy to live in it.

Okay, that’s fine. People can believe what they want to. In my opinion, it makes it even stranger that he would choose to heal some and not others. It’s quite cruel, especially taking into account the suffering of children.

The Biblical reason why God allows suffering when he could supposedly stop it was never good enough for me and was a source of great inner turmoil when I was still a believer, but that’s a separate issue.

My main problem with the belief in faith healing is that it kills people. I guess it would be harmless if people still sought appropriate medical care, though.


Is rather pointless if it kills people! :D

Will reply to other thread as not sure how best to write it. :)


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TwilightPrincess
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05 Nov 2023, 12:16 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Come on. Think we are getting no where. What is happening today was predicted many years ago way before I was born, and things are going to get worse as we reach a point where if time wasn't cut short no one would survive.

Easy to say all this but not so easy to live in it.

Okay, that’s fine. People can believe what they want to. In my opinion, it makes it even stranger that he would choose to heal some and not others. It’s quite cruel, especially taking into account the suffering of children.

The Biblical reason why God allows suffering when he could supposedly stop it was never good enough for me and was a source of great inner turmoil when I was still a believer, but that’s a separate issue.

My main problem with the belief in faith healing is that it kills people. I guess it would be harmless if people still sought appropriate medical care, though.


Is rather pointless if it kills people! :D

What do you mean?


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Mountain Goat
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05 Nov 2023, 12:41 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Come on. Think we are getting no where. What is happening today was predicted many years ago way before I was born, and things are going to get worse as we reach a point where if time wasn't cut short no one would survive.

Easy to say all this but not so easy to live in it.

Okay, that’s fine. People can believe what they want to. In my opinion, it makes it even stranger that he would choose to heal some and not others. It’s quite cruel, especially taking into account the suffering of children.

The Biblical reason why God allows suffering when he could supposedly stop it was never good enough for me and was a source of great inner turmoil when I was still a believer, but that’s a separate issue.

My main problem with the belief in faith healing is that it kills people. I guess it would be harmless if people still sought appropriate medical care, though.


Is rather pointless if it kills people! :D

What do you mean?


I am saying... Do you know the helicopter thing?


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blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 1:37 pm

As TP mentioned above, faith healing can be used as well as medical treatment, and in that event it doesn't hurt to have a positive mindset or to wish oneself better.

It is harmless in and of itself. It is only risky (and potentially harmful) if a placebo effect isn't strong enough to cure a particular illness, in which case medical treatment would be necessary.

I think most people would take medical treatment as a first option - even Christians, with dangerous health conditions such as cancer.


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TwilightPrincess
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05 Nov 2023, 2:11 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I think most people would take medical treatment as a first option - even Christians, with dangerous health conditions such as cancer.
There’s no question that most Christians pursue medical treatment, but some, including children, die every year from not doing so due to extreme beliefs. It’s a problem and worth noting when the topic of faith healing comes up. People are so easily duped, especially if they fall into certain vulnerable demographics.


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blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 2:16 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
I think most people would take medical treatment as a first option - even Christians, with dangerous health conditions such as cancer.
There’s no question that most Christians pursue medical treatment, but some, including children, die every year from not doing so due to extreme beliefs. It’s a problem and worth noting when the topic of faith healing comes up. People are so easily duped, especially if they fall into certain vulnerable demographics.


Does the OTT kind of faith healing where people are 'blessed' by a member of a church still go on in the US? I have seen that kind of thing in television shows and it seems ridiculous.


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TwilightPrincess
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05 Nov 2023, 2:19 pm

Yes, it occurs in the UK as well, but it’s not common. I watched a documentary on it a couple years ago.

Even fringe beliefs affect a lot of people.


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05 Nov 2023, 2:20 pm

Religion freaks me out sometimes. My insane mother used to have these f*****g statues of the virgin Mary dotted about the house. As if that wasn't bad enough; some of them used to glow up in the dark. :lol:

If you turned the lights off it looked like they were floating towards you. f*****g mad b*tch.


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TwilightPrincess
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05 Nov 2023, 2:22 pm

Yeah, that would freak me the f**k out.


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05 Nov 2023, 2:25 pm

I can still remember it now. My bedroom had no windows and I can just see this f*****g fluorescent virgin Mary floating towards me. I could have only been about 7 or 8. I think she was trying to scare the devil out of me or something. Lol


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ToughDiamond
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05 Nov 2023, 3:17 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
As TP mentioned above, faith healing can be used as well as medical treatment, and in that event it doesn't hurt to have a positive mindset or to wish oneself better.

It is harmless in and of itself. It is only risky (and potentially harmful) if a placebo effect isn't strong enough to cure a particular illness, in which case medical treatment would be necessary.

I think most people would take medical treatment as a first option - even Christians, with dangerous health conditions such as cancer.


In certain cases I would think you're correct, but there have been cases of serious harm. Faith healing isn't always done in a "sober" way, not by any means. It can involve trance-like states in which the body releases endorphins that kill pain. Pain is often nature's way of protecting us from getting hurt by e.g. walking about with a badly-damaged spine. If you don't know you've effectively taken a big dose of a pain killer, the faith healer isn't likely to warn you, and you could easily come to harm.

The singular lack of scientific support for the effectiveness of faith healing strongly suggests the healers are very often charlatans or horribly deluded about their talents. There's good money to be made from it. It may be OK if it happens to be one of those things that the placebo effect genuinely and permanently helps, and the price is right for the benefit you get. But otherwise, you'll be either robbed, physically harmed, or both.

OTOH it's not exactly unheard of for mainstream doctors and surgeons to harm patients with inappropriate treatment and take their money. And they often get away with it.



blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 5:39 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Yes, it occurs in the UK as well, but it’s not common. I watched a documentary on it a couple years ago.

Even fringe beliefs affect a lot of people.


Yeah. :|


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blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 5:39 pm

babybird wrote:
Religion freaks me out sometimes. My insane mother used to have these f*****g statues of the virgin Mary dotted about the house. As if that wasn't bad enough; some of them used to glow up in the dark. :lol:

If you turned the lights off it looked like they were floating towards you. f*****g mad b*tch.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 5:39 pm

babybird wrote:
I can still remember it now. My bedroom had no windows and I can just see this f*****g fluorescent virgin Mary floating towards me. I could have only been about 7 or 8. I think she was trying to scare the devil out of me or something. Lol


Maybe haha.

Or maybe she was just generally spooky.


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blitzkrieg
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05 Nov 2023, 5:41 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
OTOH it's not exactly unheard of for mainstream doctors and surgeons to harm patients with inappropriate treatment and take their money. And they often get away with it.


Isn't that kind of thing more common with the healthcare system in the US? Doctor's seem to be less restricted by what they can or cannot describe and the system seems to be more about profit than patients, versus say, a national health service run by government.


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