Things suddenly designated "woke"

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True, She should have been better prepared. Anti-wokeness is now part of the cultural "milieu" of not just the English speaking world, but has crossed borders into the non-English speaking west. It was also crucial to the electoral victory of Bolsanaro in otherwise culturally diverse Brazil.

But here's the thing, There isn't one definition of wokeness. There are a spectrum of definitions ranging from a casual Star wars fan confused why Disney + would usurp a drama about Obi Won Ben Kenobi and sideline him with a unknown black female actress all the way to a white supremacist who espouses the widespread popular "great replacement theory".

One type of definition is related to blaming media companies trying to broaden their marketing appeal to a wider audience for $$ but on the other extreme the definition is a conspiracy to erase the "white race". Where does Bethany Mandel fall on that spectrum. Given she was stumped for a definition, I think she is closer to great replacement theory than simply a marketing trick. Giving her inner thoughts on the subject away (especially as a Jewish woman) would not have been a good look for her. I am sure in the intervening time she has come up with soundbites to defend herself so is better equipped to answer the same question.

Putting everybody in oppressed vs privileged groups presentism etc is bad for a number of reasons. Those MAGAs who yell woke at everything they do not like seemingly validate wokeism and destroy the credibility of anti-wokeism every time they do it. Every time an anti-woke person can't define it in a soundbite for whatever reason it seemingly validates wokeism. Ms. Mandel can give coherent easily understandable summaries of woke is until the day she dies, it won't matter, the only thing that matters is that one soundbite that is preserved online forever. Totally unfair but that is just how things work now.

Yes, but it took the form of putting words in my mouth. I therefore corrected him regarding my opinion.

One detail I didn't notice the last time I looked at your post: The usual term is "systemically racist" not "systematically racist." There is a difference.

Give it up already.

Her failure to define "woke" DOES descredit her and the whole anti woke cause. Nothing"seeming" about it.

What is this thing called...."woke"?

this funny little thing called "woke"?

Who can solve this mystery?



https://youtu.be/qo2P7AhMbxk?list=RDqo2P7AhMbxk

I was separating actuality from perception. Mandel’s failure to define woke does not make the anti woke beliefs good or bad. The repeated replaying and mocking her failure most certainly helps the perception that anti woke beliefs are wrong and disingenuous. I guess I am being too autistic about this . We are not disagreeing about the real world implications of that clip.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you are asking me to give up thinking woke is bad. Disregard the rest if I am wrong. That is not happening because of one clip. That is not happening despite so many who publicly share my beliefs being disingenuous about it to hide their bigotry and are using anti wokeness as a tool to bring authoritarianism.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 23 Dec 2023, 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I "woke" up this morning with the epiphany that all humans are monsters and they always will be.

Does that count?

I dont claim to know what woke even IS. Must less what anyone should think about it.
Thats my point.

What I am claiming is that you dont state your case very well.
And obviously neither does she.

In fact you state it so badly that I dont even know what your case is.

For example ...if you're saying that "woke" means "the belief that America was systemically racist from its founding" then thats like saying "woke means believing that water is wet". Everyone knows that the US was founded at the expense of the Indians and the slaves back in colonial times and in the early Independence times. That just stating the obvious. So if thats what woke means. Then woke doesnt mean anything at all. So there is no reason to either adhere to it nor oppose it.

(the above fact doesnt necessarily make American worse than any place else. Depends upon which century you're talking about. When the US was founded Europe was run by aristocracy, and the Spanish colonies in the new world were racist (but in a different way) as well.)

The US didnt even pretend to stop being racist until the huge civil rights legislation passed by LBJ in 1964.

So whats up for debate is "is America STILL systemically racist in the post 1964 modern era?" not whether it was that at any time before that.

Even in your above post you're rather convoluted.

You saying that the lady makes the holy cause of anti-wokism look bad, but that wont change your mind about believing in anti-wokism ...despite the fact that you know that you are in bad company because many fellow anti wokers are a**holes who use antiwokeness as a cover for their assholery. Right there you're arguing against yourself..by not ending the statement with a "but" and then explaining why non a**holes can also be anti woke.

If I were in your shoes I might think of a better way to frame it.

Like saying "wokeism is a modern form of MacCarthyism", or "a modern secular form of Puritanism" or like that. And take it from there Though I cant really speak for you because ...like I just said...I cant figure out what you think woke is, nor why you think that it is bad.

I don't know, but it has the makings of a good Delta blues lyric:

EPIPHANY BLUES
I "woke" up this morning with the epiphany
I "woke" up this morning with the epiphany
That all humans are monsters
And they always will be

If it comes off as whiny about how guilty white people should be, don't give it any attention.

What's the natural solution to guilty white people then?

Ohhhh I've got dah bloooos!

If you're not asleep that means you're woke.

It's like I once said, "yes white people have done terrible things, but I'm not going to kiss your feet and apologize because I as a person living today had nothing to do with any of it so let's shake hands and never let it happen again."

Sounds perfectly wise to me.

Btw apparently when you "get woke" you "go broke". I'm as broke as they come so I must be woke!