What is the source of morality?

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gwenevyn
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06 Sep 2007, 4:30 am

calandale wrote:

Worked fine in smaller societies,
and is still necessary, for things that
the law can't handle.

I don't agree.

I say a good, sound flogging for an eye.

... though not really. I'm only glad it isn't my job to punish the baddies.

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calandale
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06 Sep 2007, 4:55 am

The tendency has been in the OPPOSITE
direction, say flogging near to death for
laziness. Or hanging for thievery.

Things got to their worst, in the period
depicted in that drawing. Money always
rules the law.

UncleBeer
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06 Sep 2007, 5:18 am

calandale wrote:

Money always
rules the law.

That's the other "golden rule". :lol:

richardbenson
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06 Sep 2007, 3:50 pm

right now i really dont know

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richardbenson
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06 Sep 2007, 3:51 pm

aliens prolly

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Skyknight
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16 Oct 2007, 12:59 pm

I was under the impression that good and evil are innate to existence, just like gravity and inertia--like gravity and inertia, they have no author. {sigh} At least, that's the only way I can think of to keep them safe from subjectivity's taint. Suffice to say that I'm trying to find the primal laws of good and evil that predate all else--the earth, the sun, the nebulae, even God (he has to be beholden to SOMETHING, lest he be no more than a beast of whim). I'm not about to put total trust in something that isn't impersonal, that isn't immune to bias.

Angelus-Mortis
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16 Oct 2007, 1:09 pm

The source of morality (in my opinion) is ourselves. We created God, which is only really a reflection of the morals we wish ourselves to have. That concept could not exist without the minds to believe in God and the minds to follow what God states, all written down in a book that was most likely created by someone. And in other religions, it's no different--you see morals that people try to make to cull the masses and make society work. They try to make people give credit to these morals by dressing it up with some fancy deity and a backstory, and no matter how ridiculous it was (or rather, the more ridiculous it was) the more believable it might have been--but behind it all, it was still us who created it. It's no different now. Atheists and other non believers create or develop morals based on their own experiences, and without their own experiences that make up their own existence, their morals could not exist. Cogito ergo sum; but cogito ergo mores sunt--I think, therefore morals exist.

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Last edited by Angelus-Mortis on 16 Oct 2007, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gwenevyn
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16 Oct 2007, 1:11 pm

Skyknight wrote:

Research "metaphysics of quality" and read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig. Very heavy on philosophy. Sounds like you might enjoy it though. Nothing's quite safe from the taint of subjectivity, which can be mindboggling to the extreme when we dwell on the subject. But it certainly makes for some interesting thought. You'll go nuts though, trust me. :wink:

I am insane already.

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Anubis
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16 Oct 2007, 1:52 pm

A mix of relativity/conscience/natural law.

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gwenevyn
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16 Oct 2007, 2:01 pm

Anubis wrote:

A mix of relativity/conscience/natural law.

Conscience is a surprisingly theological concept. You're an atheist, right? What does conscience mean, to you? (I am curious here, not snarky.) Is it just shorthand for cooperative instincts combined with sociological phenomena and pressures?

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richardbenson
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16 Oct 2007, 7:51 pm

richardbenson wrote:

right now i really dont know

ok i think i know now. morailty is biased against someones preception of who/what/where god is. i cant play that game unfortunatley and am disqualifying myself. i'll just live by my own morals

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RadiantAspie
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16 Oct 2007, 9:19 pm

I fully subscribe to Nietzsche's world view :twisted:

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username88
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16 Oct 2007, 9:24 pm

Its a late responce but some people choose conformity and others think/act as they see fit. Some still arent sure and do both. Its not a black and white debate.

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16 Oct 2007, 9:34 pm

Which definition of "moral" does the original poster mean?

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16 Oct 2007, 11:37 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

What is the source of moral judgment in your mind? How do you determine what values are to be held higher and which ones lower? Why is this method of valuation valid? Why should you act in accordance to these ideas? Do you truly consider yourself beyond morality? Can you justify a belief that you are beyond any moral code? Poll included with following options:

Religious teachings/divine origin: A divine being tells you what is right and wrong and therefore right and wrong is because he says so, this is a variant of philosophy.

Morality is relative: Morality has no absolute truth to it, and my selection of a moral code is by its nature arbitrary and personal.

Conscience/Natural Law: Right and wrong is a product of what values your conscience seems to tell you, morality is inherent in man and buried in his nature.

Philosophy: You accept a moral premise as true and use it to derive the rest of your beliefs, this could be that individual gain is good, that the net gain of all people is good, that freedom is good, etc.

Beyond morality: You believe that you truly have no moral valuation system at all and run your life according to none.

Perhaps the options are flawed on some level as there is certainly a large level of overlap between some ideas, but I would like to see what argument is dominant. Hopefully I have most of the major categories, if not then screw it. At least this is a topic that isn't purely religion like so many are.

Tio answer this question, read Dr Michael Shermer's book: "The Science of Good and Evil"

In a nutshell, morailty is a result of evolutionary psycology. Those who behaved in a more "moral" sense passed on more genes than those who were entirely selfish.

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Anubis
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17 Oct 2007, 2:29 am

gwenevyn wrote:

Anubis wrote:

A mix of relativity/conscience/natural law.

Agnostic. I'm not sure exactly what it is. But there must be some sort of unexplained reason for human morality. Most people cringe when they see utter depravity and "evil". Could be natural, could be something more. Outrage when a criminal harms... innocent citizens. Shock at rape. Disgust at reprehensible acts. Perhaps natural mechanisms blended with sentience. And that's what I think it is, most likely. Unless people have a soul and a conscience.

Did nature intend sentience, though?

Humans are very different to apes in terms of intelligence. Our base psychology is also greatly different to theirs. There is certainly a degree of evolutionary psychology involved, thus morality isn't entirely relative.

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