Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

Post Reply New Topic

ive read most of it. and as soon AS SOMEONE CAN ANSWER THEM i'll gladly shut up.

care to answer them?

hell i'll make it easy. answer this one

i am my own lord and savior.

Difference between murder (killing the innocent) and execution (killing those deserving of death.)


Exodus 20:5 KJV
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,....
Jealousy between the living God and lifeless idols. Not the same as coveting.



Yes, the evil (in contrast to good) is the prophecy from Micaiah of king Ahab's death.


Exodus 12:36 KJV
(36) And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
God cause the Egyptians to give to Israel; in this way they plundered the Egyptians.


Isaiah 1:10-15 KJV
(10) Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
(11) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
(12) When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
(13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
(14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
(15) And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Perhaps quote mining is too good a term for you!


Or how about:
Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
(9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Was the bronze serpent an idol?

2 Kings 18:4 KJV
(4) He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

It wasn't an idol until they started worshiping it. Thus your previous reasoning is wrong.





James 2:24 KJV
(24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

(Barnes) "Ye see then - From the course of reasoning pursued, and the example referred to.
How that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only - Not by a cold, abstract, inoperative faith. It must be by a faith that shall produce good works, and whose existence will be shown to men by good works. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works if the individual who exercises faith shall live; and he justifies men in view of that faith, and of no other. If he sees that the faith is merely speculative; that it is cold and dead, and would not produce good works, the man is not justified in his sight. As a matter of fact, therefore, it is only the faith that produces good works that justifies; and good works, therefore, as the proper expression of the nature of faith, foreseen by God as the certain result of faith, and actually performed as seen by men, are necessary in order to justification. In other words, no man will be justified who has not a faith which will produce good works, and which is of an operative and practical character. The ground of justification in the case is faith, and that only; the evidence of it, the carrying it out, the proof of the existence of the faith, is good works; and thus men are justified and saved not by mere abstract and cold faith, but by a faith necessarily connected with good works, and where good works perform an important part. James, therefore, does not contradict Paul, but he contradicts a false explanation of Pauls doctrine. He does not deny that a man is justified in the sight of God by faith, for the very passage which he quotes shows that he believes that; but he does deny that a man is justified by a faith which would not produce good works, and which is not expressed by good works; and thus he maintains, as Paul always did, that nothing else than a holy life can show that a man is a true Christian, and is accepted of God."

Thus it is a faith that produces works and not an idle faith. Justified in the sense of "proved".


Can you differentiate between bearing the fruit of the Spirit and giving secretly to people so their thanks will rightly be to God without a feeling of debt to the agent?


Oh come on! you are at your worst there!

Similar to this:

Matthew 19:7-9 KJV
(7) They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

(Barnes) Why did Moses ... - To this they objected that Moses had allowed such divorces Deu 24:1; and if he had allowed them, they inferred that they could not be unlawful. See the notes at Mat 5:31.

(8) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

(Barnes) He saith unto them ... - Jesus admits that this was allowed, but still he contends that this was not the original design of marriage. It was only a temporary expedient growing out of a special state of things, and not designed to be perpetual. It was on account of the hardness of their hearts. Moses found the custom in use. He found a hard-hearted and rebellious people. In this state of things he did not deem it prudent to forbid a practice so universal; but it might be regulated; and, instead of suffering the husband to divorce his wife in a passion, he required him, in order that he might take time to consider the matter, and thus make it probable that divorces would be less frequent, to give her a writing; to sit down deliberately to look at the matter, and probably, also, to bring the case before some scribe or learned man, to write a divorce in the legal form. Thus doing, there might be an opportunity for the matter to be reconciled, and the man to be persuaded not to divorce his wife. This, says our Saviour, was a permission growing out of a particular state of things, and designed to remedy a prevailing evil; but at first it was not so. God intended that marriage should be between one man and one woman, and that they were only to be separated, in the case specified, by him who had formed the union.
Hardness of your hearts - He speaks here of his hearers as a part of the nation. The hardness of you Jews; as when we say, we fought with England and gained our independence; that is, we, the American people, though it was done by our fathers. He does not mean to say, therefore, that this was done on account of the people whom he addressed, but of the national hardness of heart - the stubbornness of the Jewish people as a people.

(9) And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

(Barnes) And I say unto you - Emphasis should be laid here on the word I. This was the opinion of Jesus - this he proclaimed to be the law of his kingdom this the command of God ever afterward. Indulgence had been given by the laws of Moses; but that indulgence was to cease, and the marriage relation to be brought back to its original intention. Only one offence was to make divorce lawful. This is the law of God; and by the same law, all marriages which take place after divorce, where adultery is not the cause of divorce, are adulterous. Legislatures have no right to say that people may put away their wives for any other cause; and where they do, and where there is marriage afterward, by the law of God such marriages are adulterous!





God doesn't change in His being, perfections, purposes, or promises yet God responds to situations appropriately according to His wisdom and rest of His character. God promised blessings for obedience and curses for sin. If the people whom God threatened for their sin repent, should God still punish them for that which they quit? NO!! ! Are you able to understand???! !! !! !! !




Closest one yet, I'd say this would be a paradox (a contradiction in appearance) of God's mercy.

Ezekiel 18:14-32 KJV
(14) Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
(15) That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,
(16) Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
(17) That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
(18) As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
(19) Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
(21) But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(22) All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
(23) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
(24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
(25) Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
(26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
(27) Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
(28) Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(29) Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
(30) Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
(31) Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
(32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.





Isaiah 45:5-10 KJV
(5) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
(6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
(7) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

(Clarke) I form the light, and create darkness - It was the great principle of the Magian religion, which prevailed in Persia in the time of Cyrus, and in which probably he was educated, that there are two supreme, co-eternal, and independent causes always acting in opposition one to the other; one the author of all good, the other of all evil. The good being they called Light; the evil being, Darkness. That when Light had the ascendant, then good and happtness prevailed among men; when Darkness had the superiority, then eviI and misery abounded. An opinion that contradicts the clearest evidence of our reason, which plainly leads us to the acknowledgment of one only Supreme Being, infinitely good as well as powerful. With reference to this absurd opinion, held by the person to whom this prophecy is addressed, God, by his prophet, in the most significant terms, asserts his omnipotence and absolute supremacy: -
I am Jehovah, and none else;
Forming light, and creating darkness,
Making peace, and creating evil:
I Jehovah am the author of all these things.
Declaring that those powers whom the Persians held to be the original authors of good and evil to mankind, representing them by light and darkness, as their proper emblems, are no other than creatures of God, the instruments which he employs in his government of the world, ordained or permitted by him in order to execute his wise and just decrees; and that there is no power, either of good or evil, independent of the one supreme God, infinite in power and in goodness.
There were, however, some among the Persians whose sentiments were more moderate as to this matter; who held the evil principle to be in some measure subordinate to the good; and that the former would at length be wholly subdued by the latter. See Hyde, De Relig. Vet. Pers. cap. xxii.
That this opinion prevailed among the Persians as early as the time of Cyrus we may, I think, infer not only from this passage of Isaiah, which has a manifest reference to it, but likewise from a passage in Xenophons Cyropaedia, where the same doctrine is applied to the human mind. Araspes, a noble young Persian, had fallen in love with the fair captive Panthea, committed to his charge by Cyrus. After all his boasting that he was superior to the assaults of that passion, he yielded so far to it as even to threaten violence if she would not comply with his desires. Awed by the reproof of Cyrus, fearing his displeasure, and having by cool reflection recovered his reason; in his discourse with him on this subject he says: O Cyrus, I have certainly two souls; alld this piece of philosophy I have learned from that wicked sophist, Love. For if I had but one soul, it would not be at the same time good and evil, it would not at the same time approve of honorable and base actions; and at once desire to do, and refuse to do, the very same things. But it is plain that I am animated by two souls, and when the good soul prevails, I do what is virtuous; and when the evil one prevails, I attempt what is vicious. But now the good soul prevails, having gotten you for her assistant, and has clearly gained the superiority. Lib. 6 p. 424.
I make peace, and create evil - Evil is here evidently put for war and its attendant miseries. I will procure peace for the Israelites, and destroy Babylon by war. I form light, and create darkness. Now, as darkness is only the privation of light, so the evil of war is the privation of peace.

(8) Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

(Clarke) Drop down, ye heavens - The eighty-fifth psalm is a very elegant ode on the same subject with this part of Isaiahs prophecies, the restoration of Judah from captivity; and is, in the most beautiful part of it, a manifest imitation of this passage of the prophet: -
Verily his salvation is nigh unto them that fear him,
That glory may dwell in our land.
Mercy and truth have met together;
Righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
Truth shall spring from the earth,
And righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Even Jehovah: will give that which is good,
And our land shall yield her produce.
Righteousness shall go before him,
And shall direct his footsteps in the way.
Psalm 85:10-14.
See the notes on these verses.
These images of the dew and the rain descending from heaven and making the earth fruitful, employed by the prophet, and some of those nearly of the same kind which are used by the psalmist, may perhaps be primarily understood as designed to set forth in a splendid manner the happy state of Gods people restored to their country, and flourishing in peace and plenty, in piety and virtue; but justice and salvation, mercy and truth, righteousness and peace, and glory dwelling in the land, cannot with any sort of propriety, in the one or the other, be interpreted as the consequences of that event; they must mean the blessings of the great redemption by Messiah.
Let the earth open, etc. - Jonathan, in his Targum, refers this to the resurrection of the dead; the earth shall be opened, veyechon meiteiya, and the dead shall revive. A plain proof that the ancient Jews believed in a future state, and acknowledged the resurrection of the dead.
Let them bring forth salvation Let salvation produce her fruit - For vaiyiphru, the Septuagint, Vulgate, and Syriac read vaiyiphrah; and one MS. has a rasure close after the latter vau, which probably was he at first.

(9) Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

(Clarke) Wo unto him that striveth with his Maker To unto him that contendeth with the power that formed him - The prophet answers or prevents the objections and cavils of the unbelieving Jews, disposed to murmur against God, and to arraign the wisdom and justice of his dispensations in regard to them; in permitting them to be oppressed by their enemies, and in promising them deliverance instead of preventing their captivity. St. Paul has borrowed the image, and has applied it to the like purpose with equal force and elegance: Nay, but, O man! who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, out of the same lump to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor? Rom 9:20, Rom 9:21. This is spoken says Kimchi, against the king of Babylon, who insulted the Most High, bringing forth the sacred vessels, drinking out of them, and magnifying himself against God.
Or thy work, He hath no hands And to the workman, Thou hast no hands - The Syriac renders, as if he had read, velo hayithi pheal yadeycha, neither am I the work of thy hands; the Septuagint, as if they had reads velo phaalta veeyn yaadim lecha, neither hast thou made me; and thou hast no hands. But the fault seems to be in the transposition of the two pronouns; for uphoolcha, read uphoolo: and for lo, read lecha. So Houbigant corrects it; reading also uphoolo; which last correction seems not altogether necessary. The Septuagint, in MSS. Pachom. and 1. D. 2 have it thus, , which favors the reading here proposed.

(10) Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?



Different in the meaning of "peace", God's peace isn't rest from worldly strife but rest in Him by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 10:32-40 KJV
(32) Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
(33) But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
(34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
(35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
(36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
(37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
(38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
(40) He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.




John 8:13-19 KJV
(13) The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
(14) Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
(15) Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
(16) And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
(17) It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
(18) I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
(19) Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.





Would it be wrong of Him who knows the heart to diagnose correctly?



A Theophany is not the same as seeing the Beatific vision.



And God is the word "Elohim" which is plural. How about:

Matthew 28:19 KJV
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Are there not more than one person mentioned? Yet they each are equally God. Also the word for "one" used above is "Echad" which is a plurality in unity. A reference to the Trinity.



Abraham was "perfect and upright" too yet he sinned. Also in the last part of Job God tells Job and his friend their faults and where they should repent; not the same as sinless.



Of which day? Again yet another quote out of context. What are you trying to prove by your malicious quote mining?

Rule #1 of theology = You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible is accurate.

wow really because i thought killing was killing but apparently theres a difference. god should have wrote the disclaimer on the ten commandments then

same exact concept as killing eh?

same exact concept as jealousy eh?

so because god sais its ok to steal it isnt a problem, but another problem arises how can god cause you to do anything? what happend to free will?

it is. because so far all ive seen from you is god saying stuff and it must be right. give me his phone number please you shure do know what hes all about and i wanna talk to him.

sounds like one to me, why didnt they just go to god for all there healing needs?

ok so am i saved by grace or faith?

yes i can. but that bible verses apparently cant

apparently god can change his mind brah, but the people who wrote the bible didnt think so

even if theres one contradiction in the bible ones too many for me. i dont think god would make a mistake, men do though and what a suprise! men wrote the bible

you didnt even answer this question, just copied and pasted a story

this sounds familiar. just like the killing and jealousy thing earlier

you didnt answer this question either, just copyied and pasted a story

well no, but then i cant get over numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent so how can he know this mans heart if he isnt god?

well whatever it was obviously he saw god. or his likeness thus making it a contradiction

dont even start with the trinity, thats a bunch of hogwash. why would you need three gods? and how are they all the same? i dont ever remember the old testement talking about the trinity, that only showed up in the new testement. what a suprise

that makes sence. i'll accept that answer



it isnt malicious at all. as a matter infact nothing you have said has made any sence, and you act like you know everything about god like you talk to him face to face or something. i have no problem with faith, but it is the much easier option. thinking for yourself is a little harder and actually accepting the possiblity of there being no god at all is even harder

Last edited by richardbenson on 08 Nov 2007, 10:27 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Yes, I agree, the Bible says you shall not kill, but it also talks about executions, that's the exception when it comes to that commandment, killing the "ones who deserved it", the problem here is the justice system at the time and culture was awfully bad, I believe they used to follow Leviticus writings about who who should be executed, like adultery, homosexuals, etc. If I'm not mistaken, women were stoned to death for adultery, even when they were raped.


If that's a prophecy, why it looks like God himself made them to lie? like some sort of mind control? or is it an interpretation thing?


I read that argument was used to say that the sabbath (7th day of the week) was no longer a practice after Jesus' resurrection, therefore not keeping the sabbath, and changing the day of going to church and to rest on sunday.


What was the reason to make that?


You talked about divorce, what about slaves?


Well, why sons and grandchildren have to pay for the crimes of their ancestors? that's an example of God discribed in the bible as a tyrant and a dictator.

I wonder if sons were executed or subjected to punishment for their father's crimes, at the time.

confusing
what if I am neo-pagan?

The concept of the trinity started in the christian era, before that, pure Judaism had no concept of trinity, which today they still reject the idea, along with Islam, with the argument that does not constitute monotheism in its pure form.

lol, well, there is a difference between Mathew and Luke about the Genealogies of Jesus. Both of them can't be truth.

I remember reading that one refers to Joseph and the other to Mary, but I really doubt that a woman's geneology would have been used then.

i wanna know why jesus looks so white in the movies

Fundamentalist christians are in favor of capital punishment, believing that God aproves death penalties, following the OT writings, curiously when Ragtime said the OT is outdated.

Death penalty on the days those text were written was a punishment for incest, adultery, sex before marriage, I wonder what happened to a woman who didn't bleed when having the first intercourse with her husband.

This while other christian denominations are opposed to death penalties arguing that only God can take the life of a human being.

i just want off of this planet already. another question i have is god shure did like showing himself back in the day, where is he now?

i mean he did all kinds of miraculous things. parting water, destroying whole towns with fire. why doesnt he do that now?

so it could be caught on vhs!

whats the catch?

The use of 'lord' implies a vassalage of sorts. Does the payment take the form of labour, or is he after your soul?

imo 'religion is the devil in disguise' - you should NEVER sell your soul to ANYONE. No matter what they say or promise you.

.[/quote]
Well, why sons and grandchildren have to pay for the crimes of their ancestors? that's an example of God discribed in the bible as a tyrant and a dictator.

I wonder if sons were executed or subjected to punishment for their father's crimes, at the time.[/quote]

Isn't that what the left calls "political correctness"? Ie the white straight man is "evil" because of what white straight men 200 or 300 some odd years ago did, so they lack us any equal considerations because we're "evil" by rite of birth according to them.