bye guys

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Nah, I agree with sand. Mother nature can be a real irreverent b***h at times.

I don't see religion as being the problem, but lack of respect for others beliefs and people stating that their belief is the only "right" one.

Well, she's not my mother, nor does she exist, so I don't have to worry about her conjured-up treatments of people.

I would bitch-slap mother-nature so hard she wouldn't know which end is north.

I don't obey figments of others' imaginations, nor can they harm me.

I fear and obey God, who is real, and who could have harmed me if He had chosen to:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt 10:28)

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." (Psalm 111:10a)

Last edited by Ragtime on 30 Nov 2007, 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I won't debate God's existence but I will say this - he doesn't get in the way of natural law, in fact he lets it run and pretty much at the end of the day, own the world we live in. I don't obey figments either, I just pay attention to what's real and what happens with consistency. I don't say that lightly either - it took a long time to find that out and really understand that that's what'd going on in our world, think of that whatever you may.

It took you a long time to find out that Mother Nature is real?

And why would God get in the way of Himself? Natural laws are His whims.

Abstractly speaking, it took me a while to figure out that we are fundamentally animals, that the 'devil' and any semblance of him are really people giving into to animal weakesses, basic-mindededness, and general 'me first - f*** everyone else' type sheistiness. Take a good look at a nature show, you'll see where all the things that are messed up about us reflect in the animal world as well; survival of the fittest, weaker or different animals even being killed by their own for it, parents sometimes eating their young or leaving them to die at another animals hands just as a matter of territory - we have our own marks that really show just how instinctually controlled we are or just how much we value animal/genetic strength over a person's virtue or merits, why do you think social butterflies and alphas rule the world?



Not saying he is. If he created us and created this he wanted no one to find peace no matter what they did. Any spot that you have in life, any position, you'll have pressure coming in from all sides. If you try to do the right thing you'll have people's opinions and even wrath pressing in on you from all sides, if you do the wrong things and live the thug life you have pressure pushing in from all sides, if you pick any route in between you'll have pressure from all sides and all angles. I really don't think he wanted any of us coming out of this life without being hardened up a bit and learning a thing or two. As for the seeming inequities, ways that some people seem to have it easy and others get the shaft at every turn, I don't think he wanted this world to have justice in that sense really prevail.

Then again that's the funny thing, I can see the Darwinistic realities of this world though without necessarily needing to say there is no God - cracks me up how people have to 'wear the whole hat' and buy into the good points and the scrap of either general stance to be seen as having a valid position on things.

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

I was just thinking about why some people feel that they need to 'wear the whole hat' (nice expression, I've never heard that one before. I hope you don't mind my borrowing it). It seems as if some people feel that their beliefs taken together have special powers almost like the ingredients for a magic potion. It isn't the content of the beliefs as much as the having of the beliefs altogether that makes them powerful. The correct 'potion' gives them access to special knowledge and a secret society (secret in that you must be a member to really get what is going on, not that nobody knows the society exist), which gives them a sense of power over other people. Very enticing. I think all this is essentially to idolize belief itself over the content of belief, which is where the actual value lies. Being able to value a belief for its content and not for itself enables a person to let go of having to 'wear the whole hat.'

I hope skafather84 isn't gone for good.

That's a good behaviour, keep it up, attract more people to your church, I'm sure you will.

Jesus stated that. Do you count Him among the troublemakers?

In John 14:6, Jesus stated, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." So, no one gets to Heaven without Jesus, and the only other eternal domain is Hell. Pretty clear.

Out of curiousity, why did you bring the Hell thing? was that really necessary?

well, I'm glad you have an absolute 'truth' in your mind and heart, it helps in a lot of stuff, even if it is not really true.

Is it possible for you to make a religious statement that ISN'T self-referencing??

Its really sad that both sides here are coming out looking like jackasses. THis IS THE POLITICS AND RELIGION FORUM INDEX. There is going to be disagreement and dissention here. YOU DONT AGREE on the subject. It may never happen. Stop trying to be right and Act right. If you believe in God, then live like there is and follow the law of love. Disrespect will never make a convert. If you dont believe in God, then dont believe and dont argue over it unless you are looking for a fight. Chances are a christian and an athiest are going to meet up sometimes in their lives. Respect and disagree.

Heh, sometimes I think should really be called the "politics of religion and religion of politics" folder.

im not religious... but i do believe there are plenty of other forums on this website... and this one does stipulate relgious discussion.

All you seem to be doing here is starting an arguement...or trying to start one.

If you take out all of the "f**k" it may actually be suitable for "general audiences".
There ARE children here.

Just to say, I am not religious...BUT, I don't go around abusing people because of their beliefs. People have the right to believe what they want. If they want to discuss it here, I think they have the right to do so.
Sure, there may not be a "god" or heaven or hell etc. How is discussing it going to hurt though?? Personally, I think it doesn't...