Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Can we AS sufferers reproduce with a clean conscience?

Page 3 of 6 [ 95 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 5:25 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The sorts of happy clappy illusions that a lot of people broadcast about uniquness (which makes me want to gag half the time as well) really don't seem to be too far off from what people do in general and the fact that we'd put ego over the idea of spreading something that really is in far more cases than not a disability seems right in line with what any other group of people would do.

It's more culturally specific than you'd think. I taught English in South Korea for a year, which is a mercilessly competitive society. There, any mental dysfunction is not just strange, it's immoral and disgraceful.

Quote:
Bringing kids into this world period is a weird choice when you think about it and really comes down to needs - after all its not such a great place to be in general, some people are able to gloss that over or are able to see around it and still have a rosy outlook but then again that's almost the sort of distortion people need to procreate at all.

Well, the current global population is certainly surplus to requirements. There will be some sort of population bottleneck eventually when industrialized infrastructure breaks down... sorry, aspie tangent....

Quote:
To address your question more directly though - I think we'd do best if we were able to find the right NT partners, just to keep the AS genes from being too concentrated; they're helpful in small doses but rather caustic when pooled too intensely. Our whole society's "like meets like" idea where anything else would just fall apart and people can't make things work or grow to understand each other any other way - that's a cultural problem that's really causing people with the same genes to get together just because, whether its an NT subgroup or us, the natural inclination is to go that way because its the easiest. If we could, as a society, see what we're doing to ourselves with that we'd probably be much more apt to fix the whole "alpha is god" thing in our romance world - we've learned enough from breeding dogs to see what happens when you start making purebreds. Whether its people who's neurology keeps them socially crippled or its people who are in jail for life just because they're too badass for their own good to be on the outside, I think both of those particular ends like many others were created much in the same manner.

We can't fix the 'alpha is god' thing because it is necessary for social vitality. People need to want to be 'the best' in order to actually invest something into an uncertain life.

Anyways, a very thoughtful and interesting post, techstepgenr8tion!



Last edited by Kwiksnax on 16 Dec 2007, 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 5:27 am

Abangyarudo wrote:
Instead of being a suicide statistic I went from someone who loathed himself to someone who knows that life is what you make it. I wanted to make it great and honestly now it is does stuff still happen that gets me down? yea but in the end I worked hard to make my life what is it and anytime my life isn't what I wish it to be then its time for me to work hard to make it what I want it to be. So I don't think I'm great I know I'm great because noone has the willpower, charm, intellect, sexiness, and honor that Brandon has.

That's a positive attitude. I hope you have the stamina to keep it going.



Kitsy
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,015

16 Dec 2007, 5:29 am

Also would like to remind you that good parents come in all forms and so do bad parents.


_________________
I am the DAN Monster. I have your child. You owe me twenty five thousand dollars.

xx Dan Monster


Abangyarudo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 603

16 Dec 2007, 5:29 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
Instead of being a suicide statistic I went from someone who loathed himself to someone who knows that life is what you make it. I wanted to make it great and honestly now it is does stuff still happen that gets me down? yea but in the end I worked hard to make my life what is it and anytime my life isn't what I wish it to be then its time for me to work hard to make it what I want it to be. So I don't think I'm great I know I'm great because noone has the willpower, charm, intellect, sexiness, and honor that Brandon has.

That's a positive attitude. I hope you have the stamina to keep it going.

been working for 6 years so far ... so I see no stopping now currently I want to learn dancing even though I'm physically clumsy. It'll be an adventure also currently working on gaining 40 pounds which is harder then it sounds really. I've also wanted to learn Destreza since I love swords and I find the concept interesting.

there is just so much I want to learn and experience about everything that I can't let things stop me. I missed alot because in my depresion in my teens I wanna make up for it now and learn alot of things see new places, find myself in different situations all that stuff.



Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 5:37 am

Kitsy wrote:

What are your exact problems? Explain. Elaborate. Be specific.

I was not aware that AS even existed until a few weeks ago. I have always figured that my natural aversion to social situations was due to weakness of character on my part, and have therefore forced myself into social situations and have developed a reasonably good repertoire of social skills. I took pride in my progress and grew contemptuous of those who seemed more awkward than myself, simply because I believed if I could overcome difficulties then they should too.

I'm currently on track to have a good career as a secondary school teacher, with an eye toward becoming a principal or working for government educational ministries. I was doing this on the assumption that someday my instincts of introversion would abate and eventually disappear, that I would someday 'get it' and be 'normal'. Now, I know this will never happen. It will be a part of me for my entire life, and will likely become a curse for my potential children as well. Now it's all up in the air and I have to reconsider absolutely everything. My entire life is a sham, I'm a fraud, I don't know where to go from here and loathe all those who seem to have direction and purpose and power in their lives.



Abangyarudo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 603

16 Dec 2007, 5:45 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
Kitsy wrote:

What are your exact problems? Explain. Elaborate. Be specific.

I was not aware that AS even existed until a few weeks ago. I have always figured that my natural aversion to social situations was due to weakness of character on my part, and have therefore forced myself into social situations and have developed a reasonably good repertoire of social skills. I took pride in my progress and grew contemptuous of those who seemed more awkward than myself, simply because I believed if I could overcome difficulties then they should too.

I'm currently on track to have a good career as a secondary school teacher, with an eye toward becoming a principal or working for government educational ministries. I was doing this on the assumption that someday my instincts of introversion would abate and eventually disappear, that I would someday 'get it' and be 'normal'. Now, I know this will never happen. It will be a part of me for my entire life, and will likely become a curse for my potential children as well. Now it's all up in the air and I have to reconsider absolutely everything. My entire life is a sham, I'm a fraud, I don't know where to go from here and loathe all those who seem to have direction and purpose and power in their lives.


I see people on this forum call regular people NT or Nuerotypical so look at it this way noone wants to be Atypical so why by neurotypical? These differences in wiring can help you make a profound difference in children's lives use it. You know how you felt awkard well maybe its time to teach NT people that the guy they ostracize is not some mutant but afraid to possibly expose his differences due to fear of being rejected. You can show them that the differences between them and that kid is so small that the things that kids with all manner of problems can be an enomous benefit to their lives and that they may be the key to making the difference for them. Honestly I'd look at it like you have a direction in life you wanna stop or just keep on going?



Last edited by Abangyarudo on 16 Dec 2007, 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kitsy
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,015

16 Dec 2007, 5:45 am

Kwik, what other symptoms do you have? AS isn't just about social skills.

You actually sound alot like what I thought when I was 19 when I thought it would just up and go away, whatever it is that made me unusual to others.

Never happened.

There are alot of interesting hypocritical issues I've raised my brow at concerning steretypical normal people.

For example "limited interests"

I find shopping, salons and manicures to be rather limited.

When it comes to limited interests, I really don't have limited interests at all. It's just that my interests doesn't revolve around having multiple people around me yakking my ear off in the process.

Okay so aversions to sounds. Yes some sounds drive me up the wall but guess what, if I were to run my fingernails down a chalkboard, watch how many people go nuts.

I've had moments in my life where I just wanted to give up like a broken down car. I've even had people tell me they didn't expect to see me alive by the age of 18.

I'm not a quitter. Are you? I hope you are not a quitter or it's aspie boot camp you go.


_________________
I am the DAN Monster. I have your child. You owe me twenty five thousand dollars.

xx Dan Monster


Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 5:58 am

Kitsy wrote:
Kwik, what other symptoms do you have? AS isn't just about social skills.

- Compulsive obsession with limited topics. I'm still obsessed with the same computer games I played when I was 7, but I keep this quiet and of course would never tell anyone about this in real life.

- Circular thoughts with linear progression. I can get stuck on a topic and go into a rant almost subconsciously. I have to be very careful of this in real life conversations and thus tend to focus more on asking people questions and listening to them talk in order to avoid the pitfalls of slipping up and exposing my inadequacies. This tactic has worked reasonably well so far, and is quite useful in the classroom (better to get kids to think for themselves than to lecture them).

- Difficulty with reading non-verbal social cues. However, I've built up an intellectual understanding of appropriate emotional gestures and expressions, but these vary from culture to culture and region to region. Living in Korea was a STEEP learning curve. I do well in formal, scripted scenarios such as giving presentations and lectures because the formality masks my overall inability to think on my feet conversationally.

Quote:
You actually sound alot like what I thought when I was 19 when I thought it would just up and go away, whatever it is that made me unusual to others.

Never happened.

I'm not a quitter. Are you? I hope you are not a quitter or it's aspie boot camp you go.

All right, well if you keep going I will too :) Deal?



4TW
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 6 Dec 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 13

16 Dec 2007, 5:59 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
Well, fortunately for the human gene pool, our condition severely limits our opportunities to reproduce anyway. Regardless, would any of you say it is socially irresponsible and cruel for AS sufferers to have children?


Well there you go, there are so few relative to the masses that I do not think it matters either way. It's not like numbers are likely to increase at any exponential rate anytime soon. I think the instance of autism will continue to come up at a similar ratio as it always has.

Personally I do not desire children. The world is getting full and I am not convinced that I can be a good father. Furthermore, the thought just does not interest me.

For some people on the spectrum, life is nothing but a struggle. For others however, it is possible to find a niche in which to thrive and they can achieve well economically and even socially to some degree. There is no way to predict which category ones children will fall into. Well not with any accute accuracy anyway. There are plenty of "normal" people who are economically poor and have low social status too.

The best answer to your question is really to look at it on an individual basis and from as many angles as possible. Socially responsible behaviour is not perfectly objective either, and should be kept in mind.



Abangyarudo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 603

16 Dec 2007, 6:00 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
Kitsy wrote:
Kwik, what other symptoms do you have? AS isn't just about social skills.

- Compulsive obsession with limited topics. I'm still obsessed with the same computer games I played when I was 7, but I keep this quiet and of course would never tell anyone about this in real life.

- Circular thoughts with linear progression. I can get stuck on a topic and go into a rant almost subconsciously. I have to be very careful of this in real life conversations and thus tend to focus more on asking people questions and listening to them talk in order to avoid the pitfalls of slipping up and exposing my inadequacies. This tactic has worked reasonably well so far, and is quite useful in the classroom (better to get kids to think for themselves than to lecture them).

- Difficulty with reading non-verbal social cues. However, I've built up an intellectual understanding of appropriate emotional gestures and expressions, but these vary from culture to culture and region to region. Living in Korea was a STEEP learning curve. I do well in formal, scripted scenarios such as giving presentations and lectures because the formality masks my overall inability to think on my feet conversationally.

Quote:
You actually sound alot like what I thought when I was 19 when I thought it would just up and go away, whatever it is that made me unusual to others.

Never happened.

I'm not a quitter. Are you? I hope you are not a quitter or it's aspie boot camp you go.

All right, well if you keep going I will too :) Deal?


sounds like a deal to me ...

*goes back to hijacking the sexiest men thread in love and dating to make sure they add my name in there*



Last edited by Abangyarudo on 16 Dec 2007, 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kitsy
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,015

16 Dec 2007, 6:01 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
Kitsy wrote:
Kwik, what other symptoms do you have? AS isn't just about social skills.

- Compulsive obsession with limited topics. I'm still obsessed with the same computer games I played when I was 7, but I keep this quiet and of course would never tell anyone about this in real life.

- Circular thoughts with linear progression. I can get stuck on a topic and go into a rant almost subconsciously. I have to be very careful of this in real life conversations and thus tend to focus more on asking people questions and listening to them talk in order to avoid the pitfalls of slipping up and exposing my inadequacies. This tactic has worked reasonably well so far, and is quite useful in the classroom (better to get kids to think for themselves than to lecture them).

- Difficulty with reading non-verbal social cues. However, I've built up an intellectual understanding of appropriate emotional gestures and expressions, but these vary from culture to culture and region to region. Living in Korea was a STEEP learning curve. I do well in formal, scripted scenarios such as giving presentations and lectures because the formality masks my overall inability to think on my feet conversationally.

Quote:
You actually sound alot like what I thought when I was 19 when I thought it would just up and go away, whatever it is that made me unusual to others.

Never happened.

I'm not a quitter. Are you? I hope you are not a quitter or it's aspie boot camp you go.

All right, well if you keep going I will too :) Deal?


Deal and you made me smile. Thank you.


_________________
I am the DAN Monster. I have your child. You owe me twenty five thousand dollars.

xx Dan Monster


Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 6:10 am

Abangyarudo wrote:

sounds like a deal to me ...

Right on bro. Happy hijacking! :)



Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 6:10 am

Kitsy wrote:

Deal and you made me smile. Thank you.

Same goes Kitsy. Thanks for talking about all this. You've helped a lot.



Kwiksnax
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

16 Dec 2007, 6:17 am

4TW wrote:
The best answer to your question is really to look at it on an individual basis and from as many angles as possible. Socially responsible behaviour is not perfectly objective either, and should be kept in mind.

You've made some great points 4TW. The varying intensities of AT are certainly something to consider. And you're right in saying that AT really isn't that huge a deal in the grand scheme of things. Of course it's a big deal to the individual sufferer and their family, but I suppose there are a lot of more 'serious' genetic disorders out there.



jfrmeister
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 447
Location: #2309 WP'er

16 Dec 2007, 9:20 am

Abangyarudo wrote:
Honestly whether or not I have as I will still think of myself as the greatest single thing to grace this generation.


I think I'm beginning to see the root of your delusions.....


_________________
"The christian god is a being of terrific character; cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust" - Thomas Jefferson


psych
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,488
Location: w london

16 Dec 2007, 10:19 am

Kwiksnax wrote:
4TW wrote:
The best answer to your question is really to look at it on an individual basis and from as many angles as possible. Socially responsible behaviour is not perfectly objective either, and should be kept in mind.

You've made some great points 4TW. The varying intensities of AT are certainly something to consider. And you're right in saying that AT really isn't that huge a deal in the grand scheme of things. Of course it's a big deal to the individual sufferer and their family, but I suppose there are a lot of more 'serious' genetic disorders out there.


Something thats overlooked is the AS IMO label is a bit of a red-herring, as we are all different, and seem to experience a wide variety of overlapping problems over a wide range of areas. It would make almost as much sense just to say we are all ND or PDD or whatever...

Some people are assertively stating that theres nothing wrong with them, their just different and what ever remaining difficulties can be worked around etc. the problem with this approach is to realise that theirs is a unique personal experience of neurodiversity and it is quite innapropriate to project it onto the rest of us because we happen to share the same off-the-peg diagnostic label.

As regards procreation - it may be equally inappropriate to assume that any neurodiverse child you have in the future will express their autistic traits in the same way as yourself - so arguments along progressive or adaptive lines based on personal experience start to lose weight.