"The Omen, AS, Teachers/School and Child Lib"!

Post Reply New Topic

PPS : Pavlov was a great and groundbreaking psychologist working in the 50's/60's (?), who made many very important discoveries about the stages of human development in terms of our understanding of things at different ages, starting at birth.

You mean Piaget?

What significant reasons are there for believing in an essential, inevitable, inequality between a group of people under-18/16 and another group older than that?

This sort of attitude is one reason why i think the "autism epidemic" may partly be a symptom of distress of the unjustly powerless, because it is APPALLING to say these things about all people under 18/16.

PS : you say "Teenagers are still working on issues of control and responsibility", ..... and people over 18 are not?!

Honestly, the major reason that adults have most of these rights is just a matter of maintaining a rule of law and of liberty, not because they honestly deserve it.

PPS : Piaget was a great and groundbreaking psychologist working in the 50's/60's (?), who made many very important discoveries about the stages of human development in terms of our understanding of things at different ages, starting at birth.

Autism is not the result of unjust powerlessness. I had autism before I had a notion of oppression.

That is exactly my point.

That is exactly my point.

About autism epidemic; i think that there is some sort of phenomenon of social disruption, involving increasing numbers of people being diagnosed with social and cognitive and sensory and executive-function disorders, known as the autism epidemic.

About autism epidemic; i think that there is some sort of phenomenon ... known as the autism epidemic.

Of a disease: ‘Prevalent among a people or a community at a special time, and produced by some special causes not generally present in the affected locality’

Because i mean that sensory and cognitive disorders may form as expression of powerlessness because have no words for the oppression. It is unconscious and relies entirely on NOT having a "notion" of oppression!

I believe that four groups of people are causing the autism epidemic phenomenon:

The doctors, drug companies, and health professionals etc who are diagnosing, publicising, and defining the Autism Spectrum Disorders.

The people who have sensory, social and cognitive disorders as result of an unconscious reaction to oppression.

The people who have no disorders at all but have been diagnosed as having one, or several, because their behaviour is "disorderly" according to the dynamics in place, because their behaviour does not fit into the socially accepted/approved for a person without full human rights ( a child).

I believe that the experience of childhood, without full human rights, is traumatising by definition for anyone sensitive and intelligent enough to realise, perhaps from a very young age ( at 3 or earlier), that "child hood " is a state of absence of rights. That as most people have felt it essential to fight for these "things", that people have chained themselves to railings for equal rights, starved themselves, gone to prison for these things, that they are immensely precious part of human identity and value. And that you do not have them and won't until are 18 ( or 16 whatever). Finding this situation out is automatic whenever see the world. Children do not work, do not drive, have no function whatsoever.

I think that many people are often temporarily or permanently "corrupted" when they acquire those rights ( drunk, spaced out on power ). And for some or many years can forget that miserable creature dieing to grow up, in the new glory of "adulthood". And look back and DOWN at their under-18 selves, forgetting, or having never even appreciated , the gifts they had, the sensitivity and creativity that was theirs. Their immense capacity to contribute ignored/wasted/denied.
And believe that under-18s really are inferior beings undeserving of full human rights.

You still won't answer my clearly stated, serious question. Would you jump?
This one you twisted around, rephrased, then avoided. I surmise that you avoid answering it because it commits you to accepting a majority vote reached by children.

Lau, does the following , from above , answer your qu re the "epidemic" and the autism connection with oppression ?

I'm using the expression "epidemic" because it's what the phenomenon has been called.

You are standing at the top of a cliff with your son and his friend. They decide that it would be fun to jump off the cliff and fly to the bottom, like Batman and Robin. They outvote you, 2 to 1. Do you jump with them?

I don't think it is the right to vote so much that is important, rather is is that children are forced to go to school, whether they want to or not. They have to sit at desks and follow the teachers instructions. I really think the whole thing is an assault on a child's individuality. The other side of it is that it becomes unbearable, especially for teenagers, and I don't think its just aspies, look at all the emo-kids, the druggies, etc. That can't possibly be what being a healthy teenager is all about. It happens because the school is forced on kids. And then kids are forced to take medication so they can follow some absurd and arbitrary rules. This is called preparing them for success at a job. People, the industrial era is over. There are less and less of those kind of factory and office jobs. Why make kids suffer needlessly for jobs that don' t even exist?

If the argument is that this is similar to women's rights, well, my counter argument is that women's rights are built upon an intellectual equality between men and women that cannot exist between adults and children. The reason I say it cannot exist is because if I define intellect as a function of one's ability to think and one's knowledge then unless kids are really really thoughtful, they cannot compete with an adult who has education and experience. Now given that people don't get dumber as they grow up but rather smarter as their thinking skills grow stronger, it appears to me that there is no case that the average or median child is even comparable to the average or median adult.

If there is counter-evidence that the average or median child could be qualified then present it, but I would not have extended to my childhood self any of these rights. Honestly, the major reason that adults have most of these rights is just a matter of maintaining a rule of law and of liberty, not because they honestly deserve it.

Because i mean that sensory and cognitive disorders may form as expression of powerlessness because have no words for the oppression. It is unconscious and relies entirely on NOT having a "notion" of oppression!

I believe that four groups of people are causing the autism epidemic phenomenon:

The doctors, drug companies, and health professionals etc who are diagnosing, publicising, and defining the Autism Spectrum Disorders. Acting as unconscious agents of society to keep the status quo in which "children are children". Protect the interests of people over 18.

The people who have disabling sensory and cognitive and social disorders, and would have had whatever the circumstances. ( apart from any environmental pollutant factors which may play a part etc)

The people who have sensory, social and cognitive disorders as result of an unconscious reaction to oppression.

The people who have no disorders at all but have been diagnosed as having one, or several, because their behaviour is "disorderly" according to the dynamics in place, because their behaviour does not fit into the socially accepted/approved for a person without full human rights ( a child).

I believe that the experience of childhood, 16-18 years without full human rights, is traumatising by definition for anyone sensitive and intelligent enough to realise, perhaps from a very young age ( at 3 or earlier), that "child hood " is a state of absence of rights. That as most people have felt it essential to fight for these "things", that people have chained themselves to railings for equal rights, starved themselves, gone to prison for these things, they must be a precious part of human identity and value. And that you do not have them and won't until are 18 ( or 16 whatever). Finding this situation out is automatic whenever see the world. Children do not work, do not drive, have no function whatsoever.

And i think that if the understanding of this situation does not make you exactly ill, it may have you straining at the leash to grow up. To get out. I don't think that this is very good for mental state or psychological development. While women and black people did not have these rights people under-18 did not need to think of human rights as the be all and end all. But since the first world war they have ( in most places?).

I think that many people are often temporarily or permanently "corrupted" when they acquire those rights ( drunk, spaced out on power ). And for a while ( a few years or until old age when it can come back with sudden devastating force) can forget that miserable creature dieing to grow up, in the new glory of "adulthood". And look back and DOWN at their under-18 selves, forgetting, or having never even appreciated , the gifts they had, the sensitivity and creativity that was theirs. Their immense capacity to contribute ignored/wasted/denied.
And believe that under-18s really are inferior beings undeserving of full human rights.