A question for those who support China's atrocities in Tibet

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And BTW, how would you guys feel if China tried to invade other countries in that region like Mongolia, Nepal, Taiwan, Vietnam, North Korea and South Korea, and so forth? Would you support them for doing that if they said those countries belong to them? Because that's exactly what they did with Tibet only 50 some years ago.

More likely, it would be like Kosovo or East Timor - a beggar nation incapable of providing for its own security. Nobody had a strategic interest in annexing or controlling Mongolia (no uranium), but that does not appear to be the case with Tibet. But China is no Colombia, and Tibet is no Panama.

Yes. Definitely.
Judging from the given examples, you may not understand what I mean, since some people have problem understanding abstract matters of morals and spirituality, but there are worse things you can do to someone than just oppressing, killing and maiming them.
I'm very sensitive to such matters and living in China was like being in a spiritual desert. The void was tangible.
To oppress, kill and maim people AND turning them into soulless, creativity-lacking, geist-less, unspiritual flesh robots by decades of terror and brainwashing is slightly more evil in my opinion.
Driving people to their lowest, most animalistic instincts, making them betray their families and loved ones, reveling in death and cannibalism and abandoning all kinds of morals I would consider being just a tad more evil.

This is not to say anything bad about the Chinese people as such.
I love them and only wish the best for them and it's therefore the CCP makes me so mad.

The Saudis may well come in second place, having a few brainwashing characteristics, but at least they're somewhat spiritual. Even the al-quaeda doesn't rob their members of their spiritual side.

Yes, there are other people in the world that are evil, but they're not even in the same league.

An Independent Tibet probably WOULD be a major strategic advantage for Western Imperialism in Asia. That is one of the BIG reasons I do not support their independence.I dont love the chinese but I do view them as a buffer against US Hegemony.

I'm not sure a rape victim being stoned to death for adultery would get much comfort from it being done in a very spiritual way; and I'm skeptical that women given the choice by the Taliban between having their hands cut off or chopping off their own fingers for wearing nail polish might not prefer a secular dictatorship (though you do not need hands to be spitirual). Of course, if your spirituality happens to be non-Muslim you're liable to execution not just in Saudi Arabia, but also in Hamid Karzai's Afghanistan (execution for apostasy is the law there). So much for spiritual persons being compassionate.
The Chinese I've met straight from the People's Republic are not uncreative robots.
My father narrowly escaped certain torture and probable execution by a very devout, US-sponsored dictatorship; a teacher of mine narrowly escaped from a massacred peaceful protest met with indifference by the Western media (close to some Olympic Games, too) and about which the religious authorities kept silent (they had no great love for the government, but didn't mid if it killed left-leaning students), and a friend of a close relative was murdered by the same regime for the crime of spraying anti-government graffiti (so much for scrutiny by the international press during Olympics), and I can tell you about priests successfully inciting villagers to lynch students under the logic that, since they were students, they must therefore be Communists (and if not, they would go to Heaven, so what's the problem?), or about fundamentalists killing schoolteachers because they worked for a secular government, in a country that then had an illiterate majority. A distant relative's husband was murdered in cold blood, in front of his wife, by a regime supported by the religious authorities and largely installed by the US. So pardon me if I distrust Western rhetoric about lofty principles and oppose all theocracies in principle.

Where do you live? Is it China? If you don't live in China, then why not?

I don't give a crap about strategic advantage. Preventing a third world war is what I am concerned about. With China now bordering India and Pakistan (all three of these nations have big armies and nukes) there is a serious chance that things could get messy. If things do get messy, then the U.S. WILL get involved and after the mushroom clouds settle, Tibet will be free and the US hegemony you fear so much will be even stronger.

If you don't there to be a third world war and for this to happen, then you should support Tibetan independence because an independent Tibet would serve as a buffer and reduce tension between those Asian countries by not having them border each other. This is important for the survival of the human species.

What about Russia? You DO realize that 1)The US already has Hegemony along with the west and it has had so for at least 200 years. 2)Russia is slowly recovering from the economic collapse of the early 90s and STILL maintains one of the LARGEST and most Fearsome nuclear arsenals on Earth-Its land based missile fleet alone Remains Fully capable of Destroying the United States.What makes you think Russia wouldt get involved in a hypothetical war in Asia? What makes you think Russia wont at least threaten to use its nuclear arsenal to prevent US Hegemony strengthening in the ashes of such a war?? There was great concern that wars like this during the cold war could escalate once either the US, the USSR or both would get involved and deploy their nuclear arsenals. Such a nuclear war you describe is Extremely Unlikely. The thing about the US is that "US Hegemony" Does NOT benefit me personally ONE bit! Im still struggling to get a job and all I have to support me is inheritance.Im not going to partake is these hypothetical war scenarios until such a thing actually HAPPENS. Furthermore I believe very strongly that nuclear weapons will Never be used again(militarily).

If you want a job maybe you really should move to China. There you would either have a job, or else you'd be thrown in a labor camp where you are forced to make cheap plastic crap for western markets. Then you'll see how great your beloved dictatorship over there is. You'd have a job, yes, but no political or social freedom whatsoever.

The US doesnt need to have global Hegemony in order to exist AND even thrive. I mean, we are a republic, not an empire , right? Perhaps its actually a good thing that the US has some competition. But it seems that you are arguing not based on principles but because you happen to like the Tibetans in particular. After all, you expressed sympathy for the American South and its attempt to suceed from the union as well as their "right" to own slaves. But what really stunned me was that you would not be opposed to Mexico *taking back* california and the American SW. I personally wouldt mind if they wanted Texas back , but Cali? No freakin' way!

Are you a troll?

In other words: "The world sucks and people are hypocrites."
No news there...

"I can tell you".
Yeah, I bet you can. Don't think I'd be impressed, though.

What you don't seem to understand is the difference between "I scraped my knee and it hurts" and "Someone destroyed my core essence".
It's not even on the same level.
Humans do have spiritual cravings, personality and individual thoughts and beliefs that make us what we are.
Physical damage sucks in an "Ouch!" kind of way, but damage to what makes you you is worse, because it could even reduce you down to no more than an animal.

For example, have you read 1984? Do you understand the part about loving Big Brother?
Can someone get inside your head so bad that you can not even become a martyr?
If I were tortured, I would be fine as long as I was able to choose what to think of my tormentor.
If I were executed, I would be fine as long as I had the choice to be defiant.
My thoughts, ideas, beliefs, liberty, independence, individuality, "soul" and spirituality are things that I value more than my life.

The CCP have stifled things like these for some 60 years, and while most people I lived and worked with seemed happy, helpful and hospitable, after a while I noticed that it was usually more because of tradition than of real personal interest.
You only had to cross the border to Hong Kong or Macao and you could sense the difference in the air.
Even unkindness was like the difference between a anonymous punch in a crowd and being shot by an automatic tennis ball cannon.

Apparently being a materialist, you'll probably not Get It.

So you think the brutal ideological conformity of a theocracy does not go against individual thoughts, ideas and beliefs? Do you think theocracy is not about indoctrination? Do you think theocrats are not interested in controlling what you think and feel? Do you think the fundamentalists don't want your blind, unquestioning allegiance to their ideology, and not just physical obedience? Just replace chief mullah/high priest/ayatollah/prophet/etc instead of Big Brother in 1984.
Also, you are deluded if you think physical torture only produces physical pain.

Do you think the Taliban and other fundamentalists don't stifle these things? At least the CCP allows a far greater degree of personal freedom than the Saudi regime.



Spare me the BS.

Psychlone:Disagreeing with you and refusing to give in to you does NOT make me a "Troll"!
You cant expect others to automatically give in to you just because you have a strong opinion and you argue it so.
Moreover, did you not Say YOURSELF that you sympathize with the Confederacy and that they were in the "right" with regards to the American Civil War? I wasnt being facetious about the issue of California and the American SW. Because there IS a movement growing that seeks to reclaim that land from the US for Mexico(the 'Aztlan' movement).

Ion-"spirituality" is only the Tip of the Iceberg when it comes to religion and how it functions on a social level. It turns out that Religion is a POWERFUL tool for upholding and maintaing the social order. THAT was and is a big part of Tibetan buddism.
Certain people inherit FAR more resources than others because they were born into the priesthood and the supreme ruler of Tibet-the Dalai Lama-essentially OWNS all of Tibet because he is Believed to be the incarnation of Buddha.

Spare me the logical fallacies.

I challenge you to expose them.

Pbcoll and others in this thread disagree with me, but they are able to do so in a respectful manner. You seem to just want to provoke a reaction because you keep rubbing it in how great China is and you laugh at the plight of the Tibetans. Pbcoll may not support Tibetan independence, but at least he doesn't laugh at their situation as you've done. He also didn't call the Dalai Lama a dictator, that I can recall.