Do you pledge allegiance to your nation's flag?

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UtukXul
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31 Mar 2008, 1:50 pm

skafather84 wrote:

the pledge is just an idiotic piece of nationalism corrupted even further by a bunch of idiots during the communist scare where it was atheist communism vs christian democracy and so they threw in "under god" into the pledge.

Beautifully put.

Griff
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31 Mar 2008, 2:00 pm

skafather84 wrote:

i don't pledge to a flag. i pledge to the constitution. i pledge to the freedoms that were granted to all of us by the founding fathers.

How about some of my ancestors, who were some of the main agitators for the Revolutionary War? Did you ever think to thank us for that? We've been farming the land here in NC for over two-hundred years. We picked a good spot, too. The area is beautiful, and the climate is temperate. College boys are welcome. We've actually got this thing we call the Research Triangle. Come on down.

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That just destroyed it for me. It's not a pledge to this country. It's a pledge to right-wing conservatism.

skafather84
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31 Mar 2008, 2:07 pm

Griff wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

i don't pledge to a flag. i pledge to the constitution. i pledge to the freedoms that were granted to all of us by the founding fathers.

How about some of my ancestors, who were some of the main agitators for the Revolutionary War? Did you ever think to thank us for that?

my point is more that i pledge towards the ideas that the country was founded upon with regards to freedom and minimal government control over the individual. not necessarily the founding fathers as some sort of patriarchal ancestors to be worshiped. their ideas are to be revered and expanded upon (since no idea ever remains fully relevant without constant re-interpretation and updating).

DeaconBlues
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31 Mar 2008, 2:19 pm

UtukXul wrote:

Pledging to a piece of fabric is for the feeble minded, especially disgusting ones that are soaked in innocent blood. Of course what I just said could be interpreted in a few different ways, but thats up to the reader to decide

Pledging to a piece of fabric is for disgusting innocent-blood-soaked feeble-minded people? :wink:

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Ragtime
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31 Mar 2008, 2:27 pm

What I objected to is being made to say the pledge of allegiance from 1st grade on through grade school -- before the implications of what I was doing were ever explained and gone over in detail. Geez, I don't know how many years later it was that the word "allegiance" was actually defined in class, and yet there I was saying "I pledge allegiance..." How the hell could I know what I was saying, and the depth of its meaning?

I mean, an oath not understood is a pointless oath for everyone concerned.

And, naturally, so is a forced oath. Saying the pledge was mandatory in my school, which of course strips the pledge of any meaning. How was I expected to learn from adults who seemed so fundamentally stupid? I spent a good amount of my schooling trying not to learn what they were teaching me.

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Griff
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31 Mar 2008, 3:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:

I spent a good amount of my schooling trying not to learn what they were teaching me.

I spent a goodly amount of my schooling trying to learn the cool stuff they weren't teaching! I flunked touch-typing, though, because I was too busy at home, hacking at the doomboard to my hallucination machine, which was a frankensteinian monster patched together from the parts of the out-dated or broken comps from my father's land surveying business. I rescued them from the garbage, so they worshipped and served me. You could hear me chastising and beating them for their sluggishness and recalcitrance for miles around, though (the cops still refuse to patrol my parents' road). If it hadn't been for exams and big projects, I'd never have gotten my diploma. I considered them food for my colossally overinflated ego, so I hunted and slayed them without mercy instead of ignoring them like everything else. I like college, though. It cooks my synapses!

Have I mentioned that I was really disturbed when I was a kid? I got better, though, I think.

Anyway, once again, I won't recite the Pledge until the position of the President has become that of a mere idle figurehead who really isn't expected do anything useful. It's too much power for one person, as illustrated by some of the atrocities of the past seven years. I do not have tolerance for state-worship, which is something that should be left to the Commies.

skafather84
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31 Mar 2008, 3:30 pm

Griff wrote:

Anyway, once again, I won't recite the Pledge until the position of the President has become that of a mere idle figurehead who really isn't expected do anything useful. It's too much power for one person, as illustrated by some of the atrocities of the past seven years. I do not have tolerance for state-worship, which is something that should be left to the Commies.

well the powers the president now has were taken through force by the republicans with bush at the helm. really, it's a good idea in so far as the balance of powers unfortunately, most americans didn't pay attention in social studies and don't comprehend the need for checks and balances.

for example: i think a democratic presidency with democrat control over the house and senate would be just as disastrous as the republicans have been. only difference is...well...actually i can't think of much of a difference because they'd both overspend. they both support a metric ton of worthless social programs without actually trying to reform and improve those programs for maximum efficiency and they generally are both a bunch of spend-spend-spend socialists. which sadly, that's due to the neo-con movement in the republican side which more resembles socialism than traditional republican economic and personal conservatism.

PLA
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05 Apr 2008, 6:02 am

I feel that this habit makes a mockery of all oaths.

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Warsie
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05 Apr 2008, 3:12 pm

no. I stand to be respectful but I do not salute it. Also, its hard to say the US is a 'nation' rather than a bunch of nations under one government system.

then there's the 'United States' part; being originally 13 sovereign governments who wanted to unify.

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MagicMike
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06 Apr 2008, 11:56 pm

pandabear wrote:

In the USA, one of the things that we love to recite, even more than the Lord's Prayer or the Apostles' Creed, is the Pledge of Allegiance. We do this each morning, while standing, facing the American flag, with the right palm in contact with the left side of the chest.

I pledge allegiance,
To the flag,
Of the United States of America;
And to the Republic
For Which it Stands,
One nation
Under God,
Indivisible,
With liberty
And Justice
For all.

Just typing those words brings tears of patriotism to my eyes.

Do you Pledge allegiance to your country's flag? What are the words of the Pledge of Allegiance to the flags of other countries?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Kt_D4MegM[/youtube]

I made it a specific point throughout middle school NOT to stand for pledge, citing that being required would be a violation of my freedom of speech. After awhile, they just gave up on it...

skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 12:22 am

MagicMike wrote:

pandabear wrote:

I made it a specific point throughout middle school NOT to stand for pledge, citing that being required would be a violation of my freedom of speech. After awhile, they just gave up on it...

me too.

spudnik
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07 Apr 2008, 12:30 am

The Canadian Flag, and Hockey

Kilroy
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07 Apr 2008, 9:38 pm

pandabear wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arivw0qXfxQ[/youtube]
This fills me with the closest thing to Patriotism I can ever have.

Союз нерушимый республик свободных
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы,
И Ленин великий нам путь озарил,
На правое дело он поднял народы,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил.

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

В победе бессмертных идей коммунизма
Мы видим грядущее нашей страны
И Красному знамени славной Отчизны
Мы будем всегда беззаветно верны!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

digger1
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07 Apr 2008, 9:40 pm

hell no. It's just a piece of cloth - graven imagery to me.

Kilroy
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07 Apr 2008, 9:42 pm

yeah but I think America would have more patriotism if they preserved George Washington :lol: alas they did not

skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 9:49 pm

Kilroy wrote:

pandabear wrote:

contempt is the closest you get to patriotism?

anyways, this is what pulls my heartstrings.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=jF2iX2VG6e4[/youtube]

i guess more the full episode (mount rushmore) rather than just the one part....but the one part is powerful too.

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