Ah, yet more sanity from Hamas...

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Hamas advocates that children become murderers. How shocked are you, on a scale of 1 to 10?

1	55%	[ 17 ]
2	6%	[ 2 ]
3	10%	[ 3 ]
4	3%	[ 1 ]
5	10%	[ 3 ]
6	0%	[ 0 ]
7	0%	[ 0 ]
8	3%	[ 1 ]
9	6%	[ 2 ]
10	6%	[ 2 ]

Total votes : 31

iamnotaparakeet
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31 Mar 2008, 7:36 pm

BesideYouInTime wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

What's wrong with NPOV with respect to education?

That depends on a lot of factors, like the age of those being taught, for one. Kindergartners are unlikely to appreciate nuance, while I'd be disappointed if a college course was taught in black-and-white.

So, is NPOV acceptable for being taught in college then; presenting all views without placing values on them would be a virtue there?

BesideYouInTime
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31 Mar 2008, 7:40 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

So, is NPOV acceptable for being taught in college then; presenting all views without placing values on them would be a virtue there?

That would never happen since no human adheres to a NPOV. However, in a class about the history of Israel and Palestine I would expect the arguments of both sides to be taught to some degree.

monty
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31 Mar 2008, 7:49 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

So, is NPOV acceptable for being taught in college then; presenting all views without placing values on them would be a virtue there?

When the issue is over matters of fact, scholars place value in a NPOV until the facts can be established. At one point, scholars debated whether the earth was flat or round, and they ultimately determined it was an oblate spheroid. At this point, an NPOV on the basic shape of the Earth would be anti-scholastic.

When the issue centers on matters of value, then a NPOV is warranted. Colleges and universities may promote general values (ie, citizenship, leadership, etc) but when it comes to discussing conservative vs. liberal vs. libertarian, you generally don't see a questions on a poli-sci exam asking which doctrine is best. Instead, you will be asked to compare and contrast the movements, talk about each philosophy, or to expound on what Friedman, Keynes, and Laffler had to say about political economy.

When dealing with a history of the Israel-Palestine conflict, a university student should be expected to display a knowledge of the material. Whether that student favors one side or the other is irrelevant, provided they can discuss the history intelligently and defend their position. Scholarship is different than advocacy or polemics.

iamnotaparakeet
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01 Apr 2008, 1:20 am

So, how do you think the Palestinian cartoons/puppets/kid-shows influence the children? What is their goal?

velodog
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01 Apr 2008, 1:28 am

Ragtime, I put 1 because you did not have a 0 as an option.

MR_BOGAN
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01 Apr 2008, 3:44 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

MR_BOGAN wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

This is an interesting read if you want more detail

Neutral point of view...

I think it's important to realize that when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.

Yeah I can understand the Jews for wanting to have a homeland for what happened to them after WW2, you can understand why they would want to look out for number one and not care about anyone else. Also they had to defend themselves when the Arab countries attacked them.

But it still isn't right what they have done and what they are doing to the Palestine people.

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02 Apr 2008, 11:39 am

BesideYouInTime wrote:

Israel certainly doesn't have its hands clean in any sense of the word, either. Just recently it was announced they were adding another 1000 homes to a settlement in Palestinian territory.

Newsflash:

1. Israel is a sovereign nation, meaning that its land is its own, no exceptions, just like the U.S., Britain, Germany, Australia, Japan, and every other country.

2. The so-called "Palestinians" are a mix-and-match bag of Arabs from the neighboring countries, not a historic people.
Their goal is to kill every Jew in Israel, through supplanting them through a parody claim of country ownership.
No one is born a Palestinian; it's a hate group that is signed up for.
Palestinian: hate-filled Arab anti-Semite willing to kill or encourage others to kill Israeli Jews.

(Am I making this too hard for anyone to understand?)

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Ragtime
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02 Apr 2008, 11:49 am

monty wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

BesideYouInTime wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

What's worse is if Israel takes military retributive action and gets the blame for it; acts of aggression as continually done by these west side Arabs shouldn't go unchallenged or unpunished.

The problem is that the violence is cyclical and endemic. Whatever either side does inevitably leads to more violence from the other side.

If there were a ceasefire or truce, who would break it and why?

History has shown that cease fires there have been broken by both sides, who then cite the actions of their adversaries as justification for what they are doing.

Israeli history shows no such thing. Nice try; what a side-step!

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Ragtime
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02 Apr 2008, 11:51 am

velodog wrote:

Ragtime, I put 1 because you did not have a 0 as an option.

That's what "scale of 1 to 10" means. 1, 10, and the numbers in between.

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monty
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02 Apr 2008, 12:02 pm

Ragtime wrote:

velodog wrote:

Ragtime, I put 1 because you did not have a 0 as an option.

That's what "scale of 1 to 10" means. 1, 10, and the numbers in between.

So 1 = 0? If you are not at all surprised (zero), then check the box that says 1?

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02 Apr 2008, 12:41 pm

monty wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

velodog wrote:

Ragtime, I put 1 because you did not have a 0 as an option.

That's what "scale of 1 to 10" means. 1, 10, and the numbers in between.

If you are not at all surprised (zero), then check the box that says 1?

Exactly. "1" isn't a quantity, it's a relative value to the rest of the numbers. Namely, it's the least of them. Hence, if you're as little surprised as possible, you'd vote "1". Likewise, if you're incredibly surprised, that is of course not a quantity 10. "10" merely represents the maximum surprise that is possible for you to experience.

(It's fun playing these stupid little semantic games with you. :thumright:

)

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Last edited by Ragtime on 02 Apr 2008, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LePetitPrince
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02 Apr 2008, 12:43 pm

I smell Zionist Jews/Christians and Bible worshipers in this thread.

Ragtime
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02 Apr 2008, 12:44 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

I smell Zionist Jews/Christians and Bible worshipers in this thread.

Oh well, no crime in that.

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Tim_Tex
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02 Apr 2008, 12:54 pm

Orwell wrote:

Children's shows here in the States have similar violent content. Ever seen South Park? "Blame Canada!"

But South Park is supposed to be a social commentary.

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marshall
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02 Apr 2008, 1:13 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

I smell Zionist Jews/Christians and Bible worshipers in this thread.

I think the Arabs are the victims in the sense of having their land unfairly taken, but that isn't the real reason for all the hate.

The real reason is idiotic religious fanatics. Islam promotes violence and Zionism promotes false entitlement and racism. Throw religion out of the equation and the whole conflict would eventually settle down. As long as both sides think God is entitling them to hate the other side nothing will ever change. I say f*ck em. Idiots.

LePetitPrince
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02 Apr 2008, 2:08 pm

marshall wrote:

LePetitPrince wrote:

I smell Zionist Jews/Christians and Bible worshipers in this thread.

I am atheist and I hate all fanatic movements .....including Zionism =). Zionists must be really fanatic idiot zealots to the extent that they have left their countries of origin to live in non-ended war zone just because they think that the this is the 'promised land' according to some s**t myth in the bible , wow...really a smart move. I have nothing against Jews and Judaism but really..almost every Jew who left his country to live in such condition must have a strong religious s**t belief :roll:

.

I agree about Islam and religious violence. As a side note , the resistance against Israeli occupation was practiced by secular movement till the rise of Hezbullah and monopolized the resistance cause. Hezbullah's main goal is not resistance but it's rather 'deleting Israel' and so Hamas and here things start to be messed up . Palestinians' biggest mistake was their support to Hamas in the elections.

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 02 Apr 2008, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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