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Sand
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22 May 2008, 7:10 am

I don't understand the request for a "why" of the universe. How does religion answer it? If a superbeing had a reason for starting the universe what religion defines why the superbeing decided to do so? Was it a whim and that would make everything OK? What kind of an answer would you want?
When people ask why is a certain thing in a certain place in a machine the answer is that it performs a particular function to make the machine work. Are you looking for a function for the universe? As far as I have heard about religion no overall function seems to be stated there except, perhaps, the manufacture of beings to admire their creator. Perhaps that is satisfactory to some people but if a human were to somehow create creatures merely to admire him or her it would be a pretty silly human.



merr
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22 May 2008, 10:21 pm

Sand wrote:
I don't understand the request for a "why" of the universe. How does religion answer it? If a superbeing had a reason for starting the universe what religion defines why the superbeing decided to do so? Was it a whim and that would make everything OK? What kind of an answer would you want?
When people ask why is a certain thing in a certain place in a machine the answer is that it performs a particular function to make the machine work. Are you looking for a function for the universe? As far as I have heard about religion no overall function seems to be stated there except, perhaps, the manufacture of beings to admire their creator. Perhaps that is satisfactory to some people but if a human were to somehow create creatures merely to admire him or her it would be a pretty silly human.
That's jsut not how religoius people see things. To bring up this question in that context defies everything they believe, and they would not even compute the existence of a god in this sense. To them it is the same reason why people have children- to enjoy their company, to have someone to love and share existence with...etc.



Sand
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22 May 2008, 11:00 pm

I am not disputing that some people enjoy subjugating themselves to an assumed superbeing. If it makes them happy, that's OK with me. I just don't understand how that explains anything essential as to the reason for the existence of the universe. It merely grants all justification to an intelligence which offers no answers. Or at least no answers I have been able to discover. If anyone has answers I would like to find out what they are.



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23 May 2008, 5:34 pm

Sand wrote:
I am not disputing that some people enjoy subjugating themselves to an assumed superbeing. If it makes them happy, that's OK with me. I just don't understand how that explains anything essential as to the reason for the existence of the universe. It merely grants all justification to an intelligence which offers no answers. Or at least no answers I have been able to discover. If anyone has answers I would like to find out what they are.


The answers are there. The problem might be that you just don't know how to ask.


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Sand
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24 May 2008, 10:37 am

Is there a special posture or plaintive voice that one lets loose into the upper atmosphere to have all revealed. Telling me that I don't know is something I know very well. Or do you delight in emulating the Wizard of Oz?



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24 May 2008, 11:01 am

merr wrote:
Sand wrote:
I don't understand the request for a "why" of the universe. How does religion answer it? If a superbeing had a reason for starting the universe what religion defines why the superbeing decided to do so? Was it a whim and that would make everything OK? What kind of an answer would you want?
When people ask why is a certain thing in a certain place in a machine the answer is that it performs a particular function to make the machine work. Are you looking for a function for the universe? As far as I have heard about religion no overall function seems to be stated there except, perhaps, the manufacture of beings to admire their creator. Perhaps that is satisfactory to some people but if a human were to somehow create creatures merely to admire him or her it would be a pretty silly human.
That's jsut not how religoius people see things. To bring up this question in that context defies everything they believe, and they would not even compute the existence of a god in this sense. To them it is the same reason why people have children- to enjoy their company, to have someone to love and share existence with...etc.


The other hypothesis I have heard for why god does stuff is that she is an artist. Why does an artist paint? Particularly one like Picasso, who couldn't make money off his creation? Why spend hours, days, or weeks over a painting that most people won't understand or appreiciate? Maybe just the sheer joy of being creative.

I think the reason few people ever bring up this reason is that it leaves the door open to an uncaring or cruel god. The artist may not care about what its creation thinks, only that it exists. How many artistic creations depict suffering?



Sand
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24 May 2008, 11:16 am

But that brings in the daunting business of infinite regression. If there is a god, how did that god originate and what kind of meaning does that imply? If there are an infinite number of gods making gods is that any less of a foolishness or incomprehensibility? What kind of satisfactory meaning arises out of that?



merr
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26 May 2008, 5:08 pm

Sand wrote:
But that brings in the daunting business of infinite regression. If there is a god, how did that god originate
I have the same question about the universe and that it is constantly expanding into nothing. I just cant comprehend the infinite "nothing" that the universe is expanding into; also the size of the universe I just dont understand how it could erupt from a tiny ball furious with atomic activity and how small and insignificant our tiny planet is compared to the universe. Comprehending where god came from or how long god has existed for drives me equally mad. I suppose people derive a meaning that gives them calm instead of scientific explanation. I mean, it sort of takes the anxiety out of the situation a little, doesnt it? At the risk of sounding like the neverending story, scientists say that once the universe did not exist and exploded into nothing. what is "the nothing". leaves me thinking well it's there than it is something, so the universe is expanding into something, isnt it? Scientists say we dont have enough knowledge to comprehend the universe; religious people will say the same thing about comprehending a supreme being.



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26 May 2008, 10:18 pm

No, the universe is not "expanding into something". You have to look into string theory and the latest versions involving "branes" which have to do with the vibration of multidimensional structures. Neither science nor religion is equipped to justify causes in the universe. Science merely examines structures and how they integrate and what they indicate of what might be. In general, religion invents super people to say that they have motivations similar to our own and that seems to satisfy them. But these super people have as much reality as flying saucers and basically explain nothing. If God decided to create the Earth (which we are now well aware is a mere bit of insignificant dust in a universe so huge that it is almost impossible to comprehend from the viewpoint of size alone) religion never explains why He did so. Is it a hobby or some sort of cosmic jewelry or is He merely a psychotic idiot? Does He play with life on Earth the way a kid plays with his electric trains? Who knows? Certainly religion provides no answers. At least none that I find satisfactory.



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27 May 2008, 3:34 am

Santa is an anagram of Satan! 8O


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Sand
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27 May 2008, 3:45 am

They both dress in red but Santa has no obvious tail and horns so it doesn't work for me.



merr
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28 May 2008, 12:04 am

Sand wrote:
No, the universe is not "expanding into something". You have to look into string theory and the latest versions involving "branes" which have to do with the vibration of multidimensional structures. Neither science nor religion is equipped to justify causes in the universe. Science merely examines structures and how they integrate and what they indicate of what might be. In general, religion invents super people to say that they have motivations similar to our own and that seems to satisfy them. But these super people have as much reality as flying saucers and basically explain nothing. If God decided to create the Earth (which we are now well aware is a mere bit of insignificant dust in a universe so huge that it is almost impossible to comprehend from the viewpoint of size alone) religion never explains why He did so. Is it a hobby or some sort of cosmic jewelry or is He merely a psychotic idiot? Does He play with life on Earth the way a kid plays with his electric trains? Who knows? Certainly religion provides no answers. At least none that I find satisfactory.
The thing is most people dont feel the need to find out why as much as others. They dont want answers to why we are here, they just want to make this life bearable, they just want relief from some ill they have. I dont see what's so bad, or even illogical about that. My mom just learned she has cancer, and she leans on religion to keep her calm. If something like this happens, religous people dont see a need in asking why we are here, because we already are here.



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28 May 2008, 12:41 am

Sand wrote:
But that brings in the daunting business of infinite regression. If there is a god, how did that god originate and what kind of meaning does that imply? If there are an infinite number of gods making gods is that any less of a foolishness or incomprehensibility? What kind of satisfactory meaning arises out of that?


Yeah, for me at least, god isn't about making sense or expaining things. God just kind of is.



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28 May 2008, 2:57 am

And for me, God is kind of just not.
I am at an age to know that my life is very limited and I know enough to not kid myself with invented foolishness. I value every minute that is left and realizing that there is no more makes each second even more enjoyable and valuable.



merr
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28 May 2008, 4:42 am

I've seen a lot of anti-religion sentiment on WP and I just have to ask, what's the big deal? Isnt it kind of narrowminded to assume that because you dont find peace in believing in a supreme being that the whole activity is therefore foolish for all humankind? Respectfully the same peace you find in not believing, others find in believing. I dont see if it's hurting anyone to believe in an afterlife or a god if that's how they choose to live. I think people assume that religion forces you to do something you dont want to do, but many people like living that way because it gives them calm. I know it benefits millions of people to think their loved ones are in some afterlife instead of dead decaying in the ground, and that some day people will see each other again. People have believed such things for as long as humankind has existed, so it's not like it's anything new or that anything is being hindered. Whatever makes you happy is good for you. Isnt it beneficial to see both sides of the issue here?



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28 May 2008, 5:00 am

In many instances, life is not calm nor is it fair. Horrible things happen to people every day for no discernible reason. In a very large number of cases religion gives people not a sense of accepting that the universe is neither friendly nor unfriendly but declares guilt for arbitrary precepts. The universe is frequently dangerous and destructive for no motivation at all. It is merely the way things happen. You just have to grit your teeth and deal with it. The guilt that religion smears over life is unnecessary and not needed.