Level of bio education and view on evolution

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He's a good guy, and therefore you are a slanderer.

You could point out a few others to me if you want. Dawkins is really the only one I've ever seen campaigning against religion. Really, most scientists aren't interested in some kind of anti-Christian crusade, as many of them are religious themselves. When will you get that through your thick skull?


No, it actually isn't. You have failed to substantiate this claim other than to invoke "common sense" and then to derail the conversation with your paranoid belief that scientists want to burn you at the stake.

I am neither, but you seem to be both.

Last edited by Orwell on 13 May 2008, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Do we need to post more video and quotes of this guy? You're seriously going to stand by that statement?

When just about everyone I hear from stops insisting upon the notion that "science" and "religion" are two opposing forces,
as most people on WP say.

do you accept genetics and molecular biology as fact?

cause this is the type of science used to test evolution. true, there are some limitation with what you can do/say in some cases(experiments)... but you always have to state those within your experiment/paper.

many people don't consider the two AS IS to be opposing...

you however, do... you say they will agree if bio renounces evolution. ha

Either he himself is the liar, or he willingly works with the liars, or he really does not know what his producers have done. The fact of the matter is that there were atheist scientists interviewed under false premises for the movie Expelled, a movie that Ben Stein has played a major part in in many ways, including interviewing the atheists in question. Now frankly, given Ben Stein's major role, I think that ascribing ignorance to him is too charitable. Not only that, but there are also video clips of him misrepresenting the theory of evolution, which either means that he is a liar or a fool, and Mr. Stein is relatively intelligent.

don't forget, he used to write speeches for nixon.

also:

Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

Crouch: That’s right.

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

Crouch: Good word, good word.


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talk about an intellectually dishonest statement. the way in which he works logical fallacies to associate science with the holocaust is absurd and he should really be punished somehow for such a horribly ignorant statement that most likely went out and fed others' ignorance.

Man is an ape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

And the riots continue!

Please to cleek the vote bahttan. Thnx! Oh ye non believers and your inability to vote in a poll...

Vote, or shut up. Hell, do both, and do us all a favour.

I haven't finished my college Bio yet but I accept evolution.
Though I kind of accepted it even before Bio...

Good poll Sedaka.

I notice none of the opponents of evolution have been willing to state their level of biological education, for about three weeks, in a total of three threads, none of them has offered any argument why ID or any other form of creationism is scientific, none has argued against the points on the New Scientist site. Looks like if there are any arguments for their position, they don't know what they might be.

You claimed the whole field of history had been tested and proven over and over again. Where is the experiment in history? Of course, history is not a science, so perhaps there is a more general method to test a hypothesis or a theory? Do you think it might be good if you found out how to test a hypothesis or theory? Do you know the first two tests of the special theory of relativity? Look it up. They weren't experiments, but they were valid tests of the theory. Try to understand how science works. There are lots of people here able and willing to help you, but you always turn down the opportunity. Your ignorance looks deliberate.


You are again trying to divert attention from the argument by trying to annoy whoever disagrees with you. Is your argument so weak that it can't stand examination, do you enjoy annoying people, or is there some other reason for this consistent pattern?


I heard the film claims that Ben Stein started with an open mind, and gradually, while making the film, came to believe opponents evolution were being silenced. Is that the impression the film tries to give? Then either that would be a lie or this later statement from Ben Stein in an interview on April 19, 2008 in the Christian magazine World (I highlight the bits relevant to my claim):

Tell me, did Ben Stein admit to that agenda either to his interviewees, or in the film? If he doesn't admit to it in the film, then he lied in the film. He certainly lied to the scientists he interviewed when he carefully misled them about the agenda he had. You can find a copy of the letter asking for an interview at http://www.expelledexposed.com/. Look around a bit, it also checks how much substance there is to Stein's claim that scientists get sacked for doubting evolution. I can give you a quick summary. Looks like none. There is also information in Episode 074 of the Skepticality podcast and the Scientific American podcast of April 9th.


The claims of persecution do seem to be fake. Go through the list of supposedly fired scientists on www.expelledexposed.com to get past Stein's propaganda.

I watched the trailer you posted about the film. Just the trailer is the most obvious piece of propaganda I have seen from outside a totalitarian country. It consists of appeals to emotion, from the not so subtle writing on the board over the even more blatant and irrelevant cuts to Nazi concentration camps to the claim that watching the film is dangerous. If after all that someone doesn't know this is propaganda, I have to doubt their grip on reality.


Do you have any idea how much you have just given away about the quality of your reasoning and just how butterfingered your grip on reality is? Perhaps you can see if I apply the same argument to a claim you are less likely to agree with:
"Bush has stolen two election through blatant fraud. Not many people admit to this? It's obvious they were told to shut up, so that you're actually counting fewer heads than there are."

Do you accept your argument when you don't like the conclusion?


On WP, I remember only two people who insist that at least one scientific theory, namely evolution, is opposed to (your) religion. You, when you argue that evolution is taught in school because bitter people want to make children doubt God, and iamnotaparakeet in Orwell's thread on the subject. I don't remember anyone claiming science in general is opposed to religion. But if I have merely not read the relevant posts, I expect you can point me to some examples, seeing how most people on WP are supposed to have that opinion.

And perhaps you can say something about the original topic of the thread. How much education do you have in biology? Why haven't you voted in the poll?

Last edited by Gromit on 15 May 2008, 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Actually, I'm extremely critical of Evolution, and so are the professors I study under. Maybe these individuals who claim that scientists support evolution with blind faith and force it upon their colleagues have attended poor institutions or simply get their view of the scientific community through a Ben Stein movie, but it was not my experience. As a matter of fact I personally know a professor who didn't even see Darwinism as worthy of accepting until fairly recently, and like all good researchers he still is critical and questioning of it.

So, I'm not entirely sure where Ragtime is getting his ideas about the scientific community, but as a biology student who talks and interacts with scientists on a regular basis, I have had quite a different experience.