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greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:19 pm

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So does religion...

You are wrong here, it does contritubte to something.

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

It does, in some degree at least, I believe a secular society would do better at this, however, I do wonder about some things related to both, when it comes to making a contribution to society, like charitable organizations. Christian organizations do their job on that, around the world, helping the need and the poor, etc.

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Last edited by greenblue on 01 Sep 2008, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DeanFoley
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01 Sep 2008, 6:20 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So does religion...

You are wrong here, it does contritubte to something.

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

You're wrong. Secular society obviously lack the inspiration to faith, hope, and love that religion provides.

Secular society often lacks blind faith, yes. They tend to need something to believe in anything.

As for hope and love and such...still entirely possible without religion. Secular societies today are thriving.

Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 6:23 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So does religion...

You are wrong here, it does contritubte to something.

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

You're wrong. Secular society obviously lack the inspiration to faith, hope, and love that religion provides.

No, I'm right ... again.

Secular society promotes faith in government and humanistic values, it promotes hope in individual achievement, and promotes love for self.

Religion promotes faith, hope, and love for unprovable concepts, while simultaneously promoting doubt, despair, and indifference in anything other than religious dogma, ritual, and rhetoric.

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Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 6:25 pm

This has so turned from the orginal point of the post

greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:29 pm

Fnord wrote:

Secular society promotes faith in government and humanistic values, it promotes hope in individual achievement, and promotes love for self.

Religion promotes faith, hope, and love for unprovable concepts, while simultaneously promoting doubt, despair, and indifference in anything other than religious dogma, ritual, and rhetoric.

Curiosly, you stated that both promote hope.

Religion you say, love for unprovable concepts, and why not faith in humanity be an unprovable concept as well?

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Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 6:31 pm

What would be a good way to get followers

The_Cucumber
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01 Sep 2008, 6:33 pm

Fnord wrote:

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

Well in most cases this is true however I find a certain peace within my faith I cannot get from a purely secular source. I am of course speaking of the afterlife. However I do not follow any particular religious authority, preferring to make my own interpretations (hence my current signature). I know quite well I could be fooling myself, but even you'd have to admit that it's better to be wrong in your own ideas then to blindly follow the wrong ideas of others.

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slowmutant
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01 Sep 2008, 6:34 pm

I don't see how faith in humanity and self-love are intrinsically beneficial.

Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 6:35 pm

The_Cucumber wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

I find peace in libraries, observatories, and laboratories. There is just something peaceful about getting close to the truth that religion can not provide.

greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:36 pm

The_Cucumber wrote:

Well in most cases this is true however I find a certain peace within my faith I cannot get from a purely secular source. I am of course speaking of the afterlife.

Well, you could say the pros and cons of secularism over religion, is that secularism would make contributions here on earth only, but nothing about the afterlife

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greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:40 pm

Fnord wrote:

I find peace in libraries, observatories, and laboratories. There is just something peaceful about getting close to the truth that religion can not provide.

But the peace you feel is a subjective feeling, it doesn't provide a valid argument for truth or for debunking religion, the personal peace you feel provides your self comfort according to your own belief system but it does not neccesarily justify it.

Few christians would find peace in an astronomical observatory, admiring 'God's perfect creation and design'.

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Last edited by greenblue on 01 Sep 2008, 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 6:43 pm

Should I advertise on tv?

slowmutant
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01 Sep 2008, 6:44 pm

Fnord wrote:

The_Cucumber wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

I find peace in libraries, observatories, and laboratories. There is just something peaceful about getting close to the truth that religion can not provide.

As if you would know. How could you know unless you've had religion in your life at some point? It would surely kill you to make an illogical statement. :roll:

iamnotaparakeet
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01 Sep 2008, 6:44 pm

Chemistry and physics were my best subjects. Average grades: 96% chemistry and 93% physics.

Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 6:47 pm

Or Myspace would great to start...but I need a hook

Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 6:47 pm

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

I find peace in libraries, observatories, and laboratories. There is just something peaceful about getting close to the truth that religion can not provide.

But the peace you feel is a subjective feeling, it doesn't provide a valid argument for truth or for debunking religion.

Few christians would find peace in an astronomical observatory, admiring 'God's perfect creation and design'.

Of course that 'peaceful feeling' is subjective, and of course it does not provide a validating argument for or against religion. The point I was trying to make is that some people need religion to feel good, while others are capable if finding peace in non-religious settings.

I happen to be of the latter sort.

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