Death Penalty/Capital Punishment

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even if the guy killed a whole village, I rather pay to keep him alive in jail than to pay to kill him. His own acts are his own responsability, I do not wish to commit a murder myself justified by another crime. Lock him up for life and he is no danger anymore neither, execution is just yet another murder committed. I dont care about the costs.

And apart from that you are terribly badly informed. The average death penalty trial costs more than the average lifetime imprisonment. Statistically proven. The money issue is not only a repulsive argument that devaluates human life, it is also a wrong argument as execution is NOT cheaper than life without parole.

No, I knew that, I was replying from the context of your post. In other words, I just assumed that you were just badly misinformed.

But I don't care. I would rather pay more to remove a detriment than pay less to give three meals a day to rapists, molesters, and murderers.

In the near future. Enprisonment and rehabilitation will likely be virtual. Similar to the matrix.

Yeah, that about sums up my feelings on the matter too. I don't know why we have to make the methods so complicated in this country, shooting works just fine, and it's cheap too. If they really wanted to be economical they could use one of those pneumatic guns like Javier Bardem carried around in No Country for Old Men, then they wouldn't even have to waste the bullet...

Artificially inflated costs, it could be much cheaper.

As I don't endorse rape in prison I can't endorse allowing rapists and murderers to live. I too would rather pay more for these scum to be permanently removed, it would help clean up the prisons so that the poor little guy, like the guy caught with marijuana one to many times, doesn't get brutally raped or shanked or pressed into doing either. Besides, if removing them from society is Justices' goal, killing them would be more efficient than having to maintain high security prisons where the babysitter guards allow all kinds of s**t to go on out of fear for their lives. You know, because they are so outnumbered thanks to the prison being run like a business and it not being profitable for them to hire a more appropriate force. They could then downgrade the prison to medium security and the guards could work a little easier(Less worried) and those prisoners that aren't sickos could serve their time without going through hell. And we also wouldn't have to worry about them releasing some rapist/murderer/molester/violent offender because of overpopulation as they'd be dead.



Better than letting these psychos live "comfortably" while good people are struggling to get by out in the real world. Hell, they could legalize murder and we the citizens could have firing squads waiting for these monsters when they are released from prison. No more big bad government sponsored killing, well except for stupid wars that is. We could bring back lynch mobs! Nah, I'm kidding, that would be crazy. Better to have it government sponsored than to put it in crazy citizens hands, no telling what they'd do

Perhaps if the governments tended to its societies problems more (ie, gave a rats ass) there would be much less crime Woww what a shocker.

Last edited by Synth on 04 Oct 2008, 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not really. If we are talking facts and figures here, crackedpleasures is correct. Death penalty trials and their appeals drag on forever, and usually at the tax payer's expense. The BTK serial killer trial alone cost the state of Kansas over 18 million dollars, due to the state paying for all of the investigation and legal fees needed for both the prosecution and defense, and in the end the guy decided to spill his guts to get life.

Edit: Now that I think of it...it may have been the taxpayers of Sedgwick County that bore those expenses, not the entire state.

Here are links with more info on death penalty trial costs:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1080

Yeah, I don't see where it explains WHY it costs so much more.



No explanation for why investigation costs for death sentences are 3 times that of non-death sentences, perhaps it's artificially inflated to make death sentences "harder", you know, to deter death sentences? Perhaps they added unnecessary processes too?

No explanation for why the trial for death cases costs so much more than non-death, sounds artificially inflated to deter death sentences rather than it actually costing that much more. As it lasts four times as long as a non-death trial, I could understand it costing more, but it doesn't explain why it costs 15 times a non-death trial.

No explanation for why appeal costs for death sentences are so much higher than non-death, again it sounds artificially inflated to deter death sentences.

This is a good answer I found:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080825173220AAvoZWA

In the case I sited about the BTK trial, I read a book about it written by one of the attorneys of the defendant. He felt like the community was blaming him for the cost of the trial when the prosecution was equally spending as much as the defense...on the same things. They all had their own investigators, their own psychologists, their own forensic and DNA specialist....and so on. When a persons life is at stake, more time and caution are put into the trial and judges make more allowances due to the severity of the matter. However, from what I have read, the expenses are hard to track regardless of whether death is being sought or not, and many states are crying out for better record keeping to see the real 'why' of the matter...so who knows.

Living comfortably in jail?? You seriously have no clue what you are talking about. Lets see how you would react when your freedom is taken away. Some people seem to forget how important freedom is to be mentally stable and sane. No luxury in the world can replace that feeling. Besides, what luxury we are talking about? A TV and a radio maybe, maximum? If you are that materialistic that a TV in your presence is all you need to be happy, then I seriously pity you. You have no idea how a prison would affect you simply because your freedom is removed, no materialistic goods in the world can compensate that.

And your idea of cheap executions is totally unrealistic in a state with any good legal system. Because every convicted person has the right to appeal, a right which I am sure you would appreciate if you would ever be in the situation of being wrongly accused of a crime. Because these appeals take a lot of time, and because giving no right to appeal and meanwhile shooting the bullet straight away would be contrary to the modern legal systems, your cost effective execution method is not going to work. Not the executions themselves but especially the appeals take a lot of time and costs, and by removing the option to appeal you basically remove everything our legal system is about.

Basically, you come across as having no clue what you are talking about, and to be driven by vengeance.

I support the death penalty for murder and rape only under the following circumstances:

There must be 4 witness

(or)

Uncontroversial forensic evidence which has 100% proof without leaving any benefit of the doubt

and

The victim (in the case of rape) or the victim's family (in the case of murder) must have the right to pardon for blood money or nothing at all, whatever they may wish for.

I would also recommend a few thousand lashes prior to execution.

Actually, jail is a quite luxurious option in the west. For example, in the UK, sex offenders have access to a pool table and ICE (in cell electricity), ie, a TV. It's easier to score drugs in a prison than "on the out". What's more, prison is a college for crime. You enter with a graduate degree, and leave with a Ph.d . How do I know this? I base it only on one book - Jefferey Archer's prison diary, and one movie - Blow. I'm completely against detaining a person in jail for any crime except during trial. Flogging, and execution. These are the most humane punishments for society in the long run.

I guess all those smiley faces weren't a clear enough sign. Though the "Nah, I'm kidding" should have been a clear enough clue that I wasn't being serious.

My idea of CHEAPER executions isn't unrealistic, perhaps they're trying to get a grip on the cost for a reason. Eh? Apparently I'm not the only one wondering why the hell it's costing so much.



Twaddle. I don't endorse rape, you turn a blind eye. I'm not after punishment or justice, you'd rather them suffer in prison than die. I'm not selfishly acting out of a twisted consciousness desiring to keep them alive rather than end the suffering, you are. Vengeance is your ballpark, not mine.

First of all, cheap executions are only possible if you do it straight after the trial. In any good legal system, trials and proceding against a decision are elementary to avoid wrongful convictions. So basically, as the procedures against decisions and the numerous complaints swallow lot of time and money, your cheap bulletshooting is not going to work. By the time you execute someone his trial alone will have swallowed a lot of money.

Other than that, I first of all disagree with spending life in prison is a harsher punishment than dying. Secondly, I am not after revenge, I am after protecting the society from a dangerous person in a humane way. Killing the person is not humane and secondly it makes it impossible for the person to get back into society, something in which I strongly believe apart from those guilty of the harshest crimes such as genocide or serial murder. I would not even apply lifetime enprisonment for rape or single murder, 10 to 30 years in prison is enough for that IMO as I believe those who have been guilty of a single crime (even a harsh one) still have a chance to come to their senses again and thus deserve to get that chance. With all respect to the victim, but if we rob the criminal of any chance to get back on the right track, we just take a second persons life for no reason.

Also, without denying the traumas coming from rape, but when nobody dies I cannot understand how even supporters of the death penalty can call this crime harsh enough to execute someone. You can then just as well apply the death penalty for armed robbery. I am against the death penalty in any case, no matter what the crime.

As long as the "red" states don't start enforcing moral codes from the 19th century, and are at least in par with the blue states, then I am favor of keeping the legal system the way it is now.

Enough Said

Orwell does hit the nail on the head. In the name of justice you do not become what you despise.

Besides, the death penalty does not work as deterrant, statistically proven when comparing crime statistics of the US to those of Europe + when comparing crime statistics of US death penalty states and US non-DP states. As a deterrant, it simply does not work, the only people scared of it are the ones who would not commit crimes anyway. A psychopath will not let himself be stopped by a harsh punishment.