*Religion was Never Invented by NTs!*

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z0rp, it sounds like miscommunication then - no harm intended.

This thread is in no way (at least as far as I can tell) trying to advocate aspie supremacy, if anything its just trying to say that religion was - in his mind - something that came from people of intelligence and philosophers rather than being a sign of tribal stupidity or lack of sophistication, as a lot of people seem to push these days.

I also made mention to him, there are a great many NTs out there who are just like us in far more ways than a lot of us (aspies/PDD NOS) are even like each other. Still, the larger intent of the OP appeared to be validating the intelligence of religion rather than dissing NTs.

Exactly. Thank you.

One example of what seems to me to be evidence of an enlightened/useful, very likely with AS emphasis, spiritual teaching, is the idea of faith, recent discussion at:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1754810.html#1754810

The more I read and post on WP the more I find myself appreciating/understanding, and valuing, religious/spiritual concepts/practices ... weird, the effect that dialogue/WP has ... ... ... ... ...

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Last edited by ouinon on 11 Oct 2008, 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Religious/spiritual practises are the one thing that WrongPlanet members seem to loathe more than anytihng else. I'm thinking this is correlated with the rather high instances of homosexuality. They hate me because I am heterosexual and Christian.

Very funny. ( I take it that you are being "clever" about my NT/AS distinction) But not at all relevant to the argument.

techstepgener8tion summed up the thread/OP very well. It is not aimed at dissing NTs, nor designating AS as superior.

I am however still very interested in examining how many of widespread/traditional religious teachings/concepts/practices may be useful for frequent/specifically AS problems, because they were invented by AS. I suspect that "faith" is one. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

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Faith belongs to the whole human race. Aspies are a tiny minority of that race, and not known as such until the 20th century. And of course the overused term which I've come to hate, "Neruo-Typical," can't be traced back any further. These distinctions did not exist when what we understand to be "religion" came into being. ("Religion" being one of those super hugely massive concepts.)

Do you mean the "natural", genetically-determined, kind that most NTs have buckets of from birth, ( which consists most obviously in their not feeling the need to understand to the nth degree everything they do), or do you mean the artificially induced replica/prosthetic kind which religion teaches and which can make up for its genetically-determined absence in most/many AS?

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I understood none of that.

Why does it matter if you are AS/NT if we are all God's children?

It is very prideful IMO to say, "We invented religion. That's ours."

Faith is actually part of the human psychological makeup. There's an area in the brain responsible for the spiritual impulse and the appreciation the divine. Nothing can be gained from AS claiming to have "invented" faith. It's absurd. It's like assigning proprietary status to the gag reflex. Who invented the gag reflex? No one did.

Either I'm not getting my ideas across or you're disregarding them.

I get that. I will try and explain myself more clearly.


I agree that it is part of most human being's psychological makeup, that of neurotypicals, most normal/average people. But it is lacking in the make-up of AS.

Most AS, "naturally", have little or no faith. We take very little on trust. We need to understand what we are doing before we are willing, or even able, to do it. We need what we are doing to make sense, to seem logical/rational/reasonable, to us, before we are willing, or even able, to do it. That is what "having no faith" means.

Most NTs on the other hand do not need to ask questions, to understand the reasons for things, etc, etc before they are willing, or able, to do them. They have faith, naturally, as a result of their genetically-determined neural networks.

I don't know whether you have noticed, ( I only just realised recently ), that faith may well be one of the essential ingredients in carrying out long-term projects from one's own initiative. It is practically impossible to sustain prolonged effort on one activity ( where each day's contribution would be meaningless/valueless if it were not part of a bigger plan ), without believing in its eventual success, something which is difficult in a world as uncertain as ours.

The thing that makes the difference is "having faith", ie: no longer needing everything to be clear and concrete and proven and under control, etc, but "simply" having faith" in what you are doing. And it feels amazing, like flying, ( so far managing little hops only, but already notice the difference ) . NTs take this for granted. I don't. I understand now why religion makes such a song and dance about it. .

Many AS have in recent years been diagnosed with what has been called "Executive Functioning Disorder", which makes it very hard for them to organise and carry out longterm projects, among other related things. Our inability to see anything clearly, to include it accurately in our calculations, unless it seems logical to us, is physically present to us, or has fairly concrete existence of some kind, gets seriously in the way of our functioning in life.

Religion already addressed this problem a few thousand years ago. It taught "faith" which could be "learned"/acquired by people in whom the genetically programmed kind was absent or not switched on. And with it people could do things which had previously been impossible for them.


That is something else again.
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What I am thinking is that many central elements in religion may have been designed for, and by, people with particular, AS and/or "near-the-spectrum" issues/difficulties, and may be eminently practical in nature, like tools.

What is now called " Executive Dysfunction" may be what was once known as "lack of faith", and religion already found a cure for it, thousands of years ago.

So now I am wondering what other highly effective tools there might be lurking in amongst all the rhetoric ... and lists! Anyone else have personal experience of, or even a theory about, practical aspects of other important religious tenets/ideas/concepts ?
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ouinon, I was just downstairs reading more of Prager's 'Happiness is a Serious Problem'. He implies, and I think very accurately, that the people who do develop depth, develop wisdom, and have an inherent drive to consistently obtain more of both - have a driving factor that makes the struggle to gain such knowledge enjoyable to where it ends up being a source of happiness (wow can I identify...).

Essentially hardship and intelligence, particularly hardships which push a person into self-analysis and greater clarity on life and reality - just as a means to survive - tend to foster this sort of thinking. That's probably the most important aspect of it, it just happens to fall on Aspies more often by the nature of our situation and how it effects us.

Yes, everyone dislikes your posts because we're atheist homos. Or maybe it's simply because you like to dredge up ideology that belongs firmly in the 14th century.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried, chever.

Aspies do perseverations, and for centuries monks have performed repetetive tasks like chanting, doing rosaries, etc. A possible link there.

People with AS are not the only curious/creative ones, so I disagree. In fact many people (not all, not all), stick to what was programmed by their parents so I don't think so.
In fact it sorta makes sense that religion is used for the gods to inform humans of their existance for various reasons, and religions with visions of taking over the world (even if it was sort of a long time ago), or deprives humanity in any way are not valid.

Ok lemme stop you there. There is a lot of unfounded generalization there. There are smart aspies and there are not-so-smart aspies, and there are smart NTs and not-so-smart NTs. Statistically speaking, aspies appear to be more brainwashed from my observation than NTs are. Aspies are every bit as much if not more possessive minded than NTs, I can go on a NT forum and speak my mind without getting ripped to shreds for having an opinion; at least moreso than I can on these autism forums. It's all in the individual really, it has nothing to do with being autistic or not.

Furthermore, there is no solid proof that any of the religious prophets of the world religions ever existed, be it jesus, muhammad, etc.... The only one we have any significant evidence for is Buddha really. And Budhism is monism, as opposed to monotheism. I'm not saying that it isn't possible that any of those other prophets existed, they may have. But we'll never know for certain one way or the other. So how can you jump to the conclusion of saying "oh they must have been autistic"?