Is Capitalism Dead?

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13 Dec 2008, 2:46 am

True Capitalism died in the United States many decades ago.

What we have now is an ever increasing socialized system of economics. We have a mixture of businesses that are assisted with tax dollars.

Businesses are proped up by government if they fail, and stripped of profits if they succeed.

Eggman
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13 Dec 2008, 2:47 am

slowmutant wrote:

I should have said, Capitalism is an unofficial religion. How many people worship the Almighty Dollar to the exclusion of all else?

Its the official religion of the Feranghi

countzarroff
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13 Dec 2008, 3:32 am

Hope so.

slowmutant
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13 Dec 2008, 9:48 am

skafather84 wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Puppet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Capitalism is a way of life. It is a religion.

And the idol/mascot/godhead of said religion is ...

drama queen. :roll:

Not really.

i think it's quite an exaggeration. the reason why it's given the praise it is here with certain people is because we know it (mostly) works. the less interference, the better it will work. it's nothing to do with worship so much as appreciating a naturally efficient system of commerce.

i don't see how it's a religion...calling something a religion is so cheaply used here.

I may be trippin' on my "sleeping pills", but I think the Bible was wise to assume that people might worship not the cow, but the gold.

I'm assuming that's slowmutant's interpretation?

Correct. The golden calf is a symbol of materialism, which of course fuels capitalism like gasoline fuels a pickup truck.

you're adding metaphor where there wasn't any before. the story was a literal story and the intent was the first commandment. there is no commandment that states "thou shalt not be greedy." such an idea as how power has been conglomerated today didn't exist then.

You forget that greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

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13 Dec 2008, 10:03 am

Eggman wrote:

nope, its allive and well with the selling of Illinois's seat

haha awesome

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slowmutant
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13 Dec 2008, 10:22 am

Eggman wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

I should have said, Capitalism is an unofficial religion. How many people worship the Almighty Dollar to the exclusion of all else?

Its the official religion of the Feranghi

How many Laws of Acquisition?

btw, it's Ferengi.

Sand
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13 Dec 2008, 11:39 am

I wonder how one defines greed. The concept is, I think, that it means wanting more than you need. But if someone has more money than he needs to sustain himself and uses it to start a business to permit more people to sustain themselves is that greed? And if the business is successful and the owner accumulates more money to enlarge the business and give more people jobs is that greed? How does that define greed?

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13 Dec 2008, 12:05 pm

Sand wrote:

I think greed in that case would be replacing peoples jobs with machines and gaming the system to pay his employees the least amount possible while paying himself the maximum and growing the business simply to improve his own cut of the profits.

Most businesses today though only provide busy work at best. They exist for no other purpose than to create jobs. Other than infrastructure expansion and maintenance, construction, and food production what jobs are really essential? Any?

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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Dec 2008, 12:37 pm

Fraya wrote:

Actually, that's how the system is supposed to work, that isn't gaming. Gaming would be cheating and dishonesty in trades, the only exception may be the "paying himself the maximum" as that might represent a principle-agent problem, but honestly, growing the business for personal incentives is also expected.

I tend to doubt the validity of your notions. If they only exist to create jobs, then who pays them for those jobs? Why is there a threat of replacing jobs with machines, if businesses exist only to create jobs? In any case, either you are defining your terms broadly, essentialness narrowly(in which case I could argue that it could be narrower), or you have left off a lot of jobs that create value.

pandabear
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13 Dec 2008, 12:42 pm

Well, if no-one needs to work in order to produce all that we need, wouldn't that be a good thing?

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13 Dec 2008, 12:42 pm

slowmutant wrote:

You forget that greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Ooh, the catholic church decided that greed would be one of the 7 deadly sins. So? The concept isn't biblical, so why is it important? Because a man with a hat asserted the truth of it? I mean, come on, it isn't even as if popes are infallible, historically we see otherwise.

In any case, I don't see your position as anything but a meaningless assertion on your part.

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13 Dec 2008, 12:44 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

or you have left off a lot of jobs that create value.

That's probably the case I also didn't elaborate on a lot of things I considered self evident. The post was written about 30 seconds after waking up and at the time I didn't feel like going into an exhaustive list or pursuing all ancillary points.

Basically I was pointing out that capitalism creates materialism which creates a lot of stuff that people don't need and only distract from the pursuit of lasting happiness.

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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Dec 2008, 12:53 pm

Fraya wrote:

Basically I was pointing out that capitalism creates materialism which creates a lot of stuff that people don't need and only distract from the pursuit of lasting happiness.

Ok. To be honest, the pursuit of lasting happiness is probably pretty empty. I mean, for the most part, people have a baseline level of happiness that few things will really permanently impact. So, materialism or no materialism, people are likely going to be the same.

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13 Dec 2008, 1:03 pm

But who decides what people really need? Lipstick? Breakfast food? Skis? Televisions? The ipod? Who is it up to but the people who buy it?

Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 1:14 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Fraya wrote:

Basically I was pointing out that capitalism creates materialism which creates a lot of stuff that people don't need and only distract from the pursuit of lasting happiness.

Then what's the point of materialism?

Sand wrote:

But who decides what people really need? Lipstick? Breakfast food? Skis? Televisions? The ipod? Who is it up to but the people who buy it?

You're confusing need and want. That's a symptom of living in a materialistic society.

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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Dec 2008, 1:19 pm

Fraya wrote:

Then what's the point of materialism?

What's the point of a lot of things? People want something, it satisfies them for the moment, so they decide to get it.

Quote:

You're confusing need and want. That's a symptom of living in a materialistic society.

Well, the only things "needed" are food and water, but that is a bare-bones existence, and we are presupposing a person's values by doing that.

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