Any Reason to Preserve Other Animals?

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Any reason?

Moral/Animal Rights/sharing the planet	27%	[ 10 ]
Sentimental/entertainment value/beauty etc	5%	[ 2 ]
Ecological balance; please justify in thread	16%	[ 6 ]
All of the above	30%	[ 11 ]
Not sure/don't know	0%	[ 0 ]
None at all	8%	[ 3 ]
Other, please explain in thread	0%	[ 0 ]
For food. ( thanks Fnord! )	14%	[ 5 ]

Total votes : 37

slowmutant
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22 Dec 2008, 7:52 pm

greenblue wrote:

ouinon wrote:

Averick wrote:

I love life and I think animals have as much right to this planet as man, who is also an animal.

The title of this thread is " ... Other Animals" precisely because I am aware that we are animals. Why do you think other animals have as much right as us to the planet?

Maybe they have more right than us, after all, many existed way before humans did, therefore humans eventually became the invaders in nature, putting it in that perspective, it is alleged that humans are destroying the environment of the planet, and very likely, they would be considered a pest and menace from another animal perspective, if they had the mind to make that judgement.

Another question is, is there a good reason to preserve humans?

Yes.

We have as much right to exist as the rest of Nature, but the one thing we have no right to do is assume we are more important than the rest of Nature. As a species, we've lost our place in the grand scheme of life on Earth, but that doesn't mean we can't find it again.

Haliphron
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23 Dec 2008, 4:09 am

ouinon wrote:

Is there any reason why we should preserve other animals apart from those which contribute directly to human survival/activities?

ie; Keep bees and most other insects for the plant pollination etc aspect. Keep birds to limit insect population, for eggs, etc. Sheep and some cows etc, fish and other seafood, as food, and some dogs and cats, etc, as pets.

But not bother to protect any others. After all, what use are they? We can keep their DNA, etc in labs, and a few individual specimens in spacious zoos, etc.

But stop taking up land and resources and charitable energy on "saving" the others.

.

Let me ask you THIS ouinon: Suppose that some time in the future their emerges a race of sentient being that are MORE intelligent and even MORE complex than we are. Be they AI-Robots, Aliens, or something we cant even imagine. WHAT reason would there be to continue to preserve the human species? Should we all just go extinct and allow this new species to take over??

Magnus
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23 Dec 2008, 4:17 am

Great question Haliphron, I hope it gets answered thoughtfully.

Quote:

Suppose that some time in the future their emerges a race of sentient being that are MORE intelligent and even MORE complex than we are. Be they AI-Robots, Aliens, or something we cant even imagine. WHAT reason would there be to continue to preserve the human species? Should we all just go extinct and allow this new species to take over??

Would it be unethical for a more intelligent species to use us for their own benefit?

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ducasse
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23 Dec 2008, 7:36 am

Magnus wrote:

Great question Haliphron, I hope it gets answered thoughtfully.

Quote:

Would it be unethical for a more intelligent species to use us for their own benefit?

Yes it would be unethical. The argument for humans being justified in using other species for our own benefit does not rest on the quantitative difference in intelligence between us & other species, but on the qualitative difference in consciousness. We are aware of pain & suffering in ourselves & others in a way that cows aren't.

slowmutant
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23 Dec 2008, 7:44 am

ducasse wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Great question Haliphron, I hope it gets answered thoughtfully.

Quote:

Would it be unethical for a more intelligent species to use us for their own benefit?

Mind you, cows are still plenty capable of pain & suffering.

ducasse
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23 Dec 2008, 7:52 am

slowmutant wrote:

ducasse wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Great question Haliphron, I hope it gets answered thoughtfully.

Quote:

Would it be unethical for a more intelligent species to use us for their own benefit?

Mind you, cows are still plenty capable of pain & suffering.

Right, but I'm not arguing that hurting cows is cool, or that cows can't suffer. I'm outlining the moral distinction between hurting cows & hurting people. Don't you think that distinction exists?

slowmutant
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23 Dec 2008, 7:55 am

Of course!

But if you're thinking about hurting a heifer ...

ouinon
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23 Dec 2008, 9:30 am

Haliphron wrote:

ouinon wrote:

Is there any reason why we should preserve other animals apart from those which contribute directly to human survival/activities?

Suppose that some time in the future their emerges a race of sentient being that are MORE intelligent and even MORE complex than we are. Be they AI-Robots, aliens, or something we can't even imagine. WHAT reason would there be to continue to preserve the human species? Should we all just go extinct and allow this new species to take over??

If they really were "superior" I don't think it would be a case of "allowing" them to take over, but being unable to do anything about it.

Our survival as a species would probably depend on the "superior" being deciding/realising that our continued existence was in its best interest, and doing whatever was needed to allow/enable it.

We might be permitted to live if we did not cause damage to its belongings, interfere with its projects, and so long as any of our activities likely to cause such destruction could be restricted to certain designated areas.

.

ouinon
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23 Dec 2008, 9:32 am

slowmutant wrote:

As a species, we've lost our place in the grand scheme of life on Earth.

What evidence do you have for this assertion?
.

slowmutant
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23 Dec 2008, 9:41 am

ouinon wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

As a species, we've lost our place in the grand scheme of life on Earth.

What evidence do you have for this assertion?
.

Our post-industrial estrangement from nature .... and also our feminist idealogues.

Sand
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23 Dec 2008, 9:53 am

ducasse wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Great question Haliphron, I hope it gets answered thoughtfully.

Quote:

Would it be unethical for a more intelligent species to use us for their own benefit?

The last time I psychoanalyzed a cow it was quite upset at being determined an inferior being. It had planned on going into astrophysics inspired by that old poem about a cow jumping over the moon but when it applied to NASA the racially prejudiced board chose a dumb human instead.

ouinon
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23 Dec 2008, 9:59 am

slowmutant wrote:

ouinon wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

As a species, we've lost our place in the grand scheme of life on Earth.

What evidence do you have for this assertion?

Our post-industrial estrangement from nature.

What about the wasp that lays its egg(s) in live caterpillars, which are eaten alive from the inside as the wasp egg(s) hatches, and die as the wasp emerges from its living cocoon/host. Is that part of the grand scheme or not?

And perhaps to a weaver bird its intricate constructions seem like our skyscrapers, and to the termite its mound filled with cemented tunnels like a city. And when locusts leave a field of crops devastated it might seem as if they have destroyed their environment completely.

"Estrangement from nature" is a subjective experience of the world. Why do you believe that you are estranged from nature? Why do you feel as if you have "lost your place in the grand scheme" of things?

.

Magnus
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23 Dec 2008, 10:04 am

Cows have a nervous system. Animals feel pain. I'm not a fan of the strong dominating the weak. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. There is no excuse to cause others pain for our own entertainment or to have a better quality of life.

I know humans are animals and we are at the top of the food chain, but I don't want to live like an animal. I would prefer to live in a peaceful world where we live as harmoniously with others as possible. Anything can be rationalized but if it goes against my conscience, I won't buy into it.

With all that said, I realize that most humans are very chimp like. Let them eat meat.
But, I like the bonobo much better. :wink:

slowmutant
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23 Dec 2008, 10:08 am

You'll argue every single point I try to make, ouinon. So why should I bother?

DentArthurDent
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23 Dec 2008, 3:41 pm

The earth and its inhabitants exist in symbiosis. The preservation of endangered species in their natural habitat means that we are trying to preserve that symbiosis.

@ Slowmutant will you stop making sense, the natural order of this forum is that we disagree with each other, :lol:

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slowmutant
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23 Dec 2008, 8:17 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Says who?

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