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psych
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19 Dec 2005, 10:42 pm

Sean wrote:
Toby Keith wrote:
Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way

:P :twisted: :D :lol:


Manowar (New York rockers) wrote:
Take what I want and I go where I please
Got the world right by the balls.
This world ain't big enough to keep me down.
Yea we're livin' in a sick world. The man on the T.V.
said we got lotsa trouble overseas,
well what the hell do I care? Think they care about me?
Stop sending money send'em all a bomb.
Ride, ride, ride, I'm the WARLORD of the road,
Ridin', ridin', ridin', ain't never growin' old.


:P :twisted: ;)



SB2
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19 Dec 2005, 11:25 pm

Ah, but you are entitled to complain if you vote, for the loser.

And you are exempt of criticism, if, you vote for the loser.

1 person 1 vote.

Also, i do believe the issue was generalization.

You stated that 57 some odd million voted against Bush. That means that the whole country does not offer him their support. And it is rediculous to lay claim that each american is lustful for world domination.

There are a number of us who realize that world domination by america only serves to fill the coiffers of a select few.

But if it did translate into benefit to all americans, sure why not, i'd go along.

And don't give me none of that, "see, i told you so" act. I already tossed my support to egoism and self interrest, and anyperson would feel the same way.

I have a different view of global domination than acting as the worlds police. Or dominating through military might.

Its called ingenuity and invention, with a dash of hard work and manufacturing.


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Sean
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20 Dec 2005, 12:40 am

I still support Bush. I doubt he'll ever be remebered as one of the greats, but he's not the evil ret*d he gets portrayed as either. This would be one helluva long thread if I broke it all down plicy-by-policy. As for the foreign complaints about Bush, unless you have US bombs falling on your head, stop bitching and get a life! :roll:



SB2
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20 Dec 2005, 12:51 am

Sean,

i would love to enjoy a civil debate with you regarding Bush.

In particular;
his across the board stance against labor
his no child left behing flop
and his pursuit of all things special interrest in support of the already well fed rich elite.


Also, i believe firmly that history will not be kind to this farce of a man.


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CockneyRebel
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20 Dec 2005, 3:56 am

I would like to express that it doesn't matter which country a person is from. I respect all people and I see what's inside of all Human Beings. I have relatives in the States and I love them as much as the ones up in Canada. I've even said, "God Bless America" after 911, because the Americans are my Neighbours. I love all People. I hope I wasn't the one that made you feel unwelcome. I apologise, if I did.


Cockney Rebel



pernicious_penguin
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20 Dec 2005, 4:28 am

yeah, it's pretty bad here

give it about 5 more years and people will see the benefit in having a constitutional republic in Iraq and intervention in a part of the world where certain governments chant 'death to america', paint 'death to israel' on their ballistic missiles and happen to be acquiring nuclear weapons while stating that are 100% ok sacrificing themselves in a nuclear exchange so they can go to heaven!

Sometimes the European way is wrong - we will not repeat the mistakes of Chamberlain with Hitler. not again. We will fight every step of the way so genocide does not occur again.

check your own history before you criticize us. People forget the bloodshed of their grandparents, parents, and family too easily.



RobertN
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20 Dec 2005, 5:09 am

Quote:
But if it did translate into benefit to all americans, sure why not, i'd go along.


Exactly, that just confirms my suspicions. Utter selfishness. :roll:

We don't want you controlling our world - that is why we hate you. Just back off, and mind your own business.



RobertN
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20 Dec 2005, 5:12 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I would like to express that it doesn't matter which country a person is from. I respect all people and I see what's inside of all Human Beings. I have relatives in the States and I love them as much as the ones up in Canada. I've even said, "God Bless America" after 911, because the Americans are my Neighbours. I love all People. I hope I wasn't the one that made you feel unwelcome. I apologise, if I did.


Cockney Rebel


Thats a good way to be. Unfortunately Americans see the rest of the world as sub-human. They think they are superior, so they have a right to dominate us, and tell us what to do.



Sean
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20 Dec 2005, 5:26 am

RobertN wrote:
Thats a good way to be. Unfortunately Americans see the rest of the world as sub-human. They think they are superior, so they have a right to dominate us, and tell us what to do.

Before you start making to many accusations, guess which country invented the doctrine of "Whinte Man's Burden"? :wink:

Rudyard Kipling wrote:
Take up the White man's burden --
Send forth the best ye breed --
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness
On fluttered folk and wild --
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden --
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times mad plain.
To seek another's profit
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden --
The savage wars of peace --
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hope to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden --
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper --
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
And mark them with your dead!

Take up the White man's burden --
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard --
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light: --
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
"Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden --
Ye dare not stoop to less --
Nor call too loud on freedom
To cloak your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your Gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden --
Have done with childish days --
The lightly proffered laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years,
Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!



RobertN
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20 Dec 2005, 5:37 am

If you are refering to British colonialism, we gave that up over 50 years ago. You still seem to have your own special branch of colonialism.



Remnant
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20 Dec 2005, 7:15 am

RobertN wrote:
If you are refering to British colonialism, we gave that up over 50 years ago. You still seem to have your own special branch of colonialism.


A lot of Americans, myself included, agree with you. Maybe I just can't see the bigger picture, but we go overseas and make trouble for ourselves that could be avoided. In another dimension, the U.S. had a permanent base on the moon by 1980 and by now the rest of the world walks the line without us having to hassle them. At the same time we are content to leave them in peace.



Sorce
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20 Dec 2005, 5:33 pm

Remnant wrote:
There's a difference between not backing down when you need to face up to something and not knowing when to quit. There are areas where Americans simply don't know when to quit.


This I take as a compliment. And no I don't know when to quit, but I've never denied that I'm a stubborn bastard.

Quote:
We apparently had hundreds of billions of dollars to waste blowing holes in a sand trap. Was that the better choice, or would it have been a better choice to use that money to, among other things, protect New Orleans?


With the government that New Orleans had, they would have been screwed, troops or no troops.

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What about developing a spaceplane to replace the space shuttle? What about getting back to the moon and protecting the superiority that we worked hard for? In some ways our progress has been pretty good, but in some ways it has been horribly stunted.


Very true. We can't even speak correct english anymore.

Quote:
When I was a child I was expected to get up after I was knocked down and go about my business. This kind of thing really frustrates me when I have reason to believe that it was sham. The people who responded to 9/11 the way they did have no intention of letting their own country get up, dust ourselves off, and going about our business. It took me a few minutes to figure out what was best. I went to work, arrived on time, and did my job. It's not our job to babysit the rest of the world, especially at the sacrifice of thousands of our own lives and far more money than our future generations can raise in minimum wage jobs. I'm big on countries that mind their own business and take care of their own. If we did that they couldn't hurt us. Weak is easier to hurt than strong. Why act weak when we don't have to? Oh, we're hurt and scared and gots booboos on our widdle knees? What could I have been thinking?


I don't like the fact that we interfere with other countries, but it seems that organizations that are designed to handle their problems are unwilling to do so. They're too busy throwing sanctions at the countries that only hurts the regular people, and trying to figure out the definition of genocide. Looking the other way leads to hundreds, thousands, and sometimes millions dying in horrible ways. You can go about your day without a thought towards the suffering of others, but I can't blame you for that. It doesn't directly affect you, and it's hard just worrying about yourself, let alone other people.



Sophist
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20 Dec 2005, 6:10 pm

We should have been in Africa helping them instead of in Iraq if the Bush administration wishes to talk about "fighting for human rights".

I'm more sickened by the deceit than anything else.

"We're going into Iraq to capture Saddam to keep him from feeding weapons into Palestine because Israel is our ally. We're also going in there to get us some more oil."

I could have respected that more than the lies they're feeding now.


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Paula
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21 Dec 2005, 2:19 am

So let me get this straight....an AMERICAN founded this website, and yet there is American Bashing going on here?????Sounds like we have some hypocrits here. Why come on here when an American runs this sight. Do you actually hate Alex????? Where would alot of you be if it wasn't for him? I'm speaking expecally to those of you who hate Americans....I don't get it. This website has been a Godsend to many people, and you know it. Think about what you are saying, and no I am not just referring to you RobertN, you weren't involved in the chat, although I really don't get you,but then again bigotry has never made sense to me.



Mithrandir
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21 Dec 2005, 2:44 am

Why do we always label people from a country with their leader?


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SB2
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21 Dec 2005, 2:52 am

I would like to offer this;

In no way, as an American, do i hate my country. I believe in the basic foundation, and i believe in the people.

All throughout the history of our nation has the citizenry questioned its leaders. And that is a right afforded to us in the bill of rights. And has been paracticed in many forms. My personal opinion (which is just that) is that our current president has done NOTHING to make the lives of the average citizen (or majority) better. I think that every single position he has held has been in support of those Americans who really don't need as much as the rest. By need i mean basic human dignities; livable wages, health care (god forbid you need it) and security.
Security being--- we not only had the worst attack on american soil during his term(s) in office, but he continues to put good, healthy, young american's lives at risk in his pursuits on behalf of special interrests.
Livable wages being--- every single piece of legislation which was offered for approval during his term(s) in office, which were pro labor, has been rejected or accepted only after compromise. every other , that applies to labor, has been accepted and forced through congress has his agenda of pursuing the needs of special interrest. 1 in 8 americans now live beneath the poverty line. Fewer people own more of this nations wealth. there is a defined erosion of the middle class going on.
Healthcare being---Clinton made a big deal about healthcare in 1992 and throughout his term(s) in office, i admit that the solutions were a joke, but he tried and to no avail. There has been little mention under bush and each year, during his term(s) the average joe has a higher co-pay or loses their insurance altogether. And it has been 13 years since the american public stated that was a high priority for them. Bush has completely ignored healthcare, because it is not sound economically for his special interrest buddies.

Bottom line is that he is a major player in the circle of the rich elite. The people who continue to get richer and richer off of the rest of our hard work.

I hold optimism for the future of this Nation. But i fear that as long as people do not excercise their right, given to them by law, we will begin this slippery slope of regression and realize it after its too late.

I would do anything for America, including, pulling my head out of the sand, looking around, assessing the situation and screaming the injustices i see from the highest mountain.
God Bless America and the freedom of speech.


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