What's so bad about fascism?

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Off-topic: Dent, are you of the persuasion that capitalism must be allowed its excesses in order to prepare the way for the communist revolution? If so, shouldn't you actually be advocating some type of borderline anarcho-capitalist view so that we will get unbridled capitalism ripe for rebellion?

Well, we need better fascists. No, I never actually came to defend the Holocaust, too many valuable talented people who could have been used for the good of the state. Orwell, what is important is that a person can contribute to society, not any label. The commies did not engage in as big of a war and you know it, to say that the communist experience is as bad as the fascist one is questionable.


The list of "banned books" usually refers to attempts to limit public access to particular books. Not an outright prevention of the book from being sold, the latter being rather hard to do.


Well, Orwell, I have changed my views enough times that to me it really does not matter. In any case, I also was once a republican and a minarchist, I changed my views away from those views too. Does that make those views less credible? Your methodology seems flawed.


That is somewhat of an assumption. As for one, we do not know the necessary level of economic freedom, nor do we know the necessary level of personal freedom. Really all this is is a hypothesis put forward by Milton Friedman in the 20th century that nobody knows is valid or invalid.

And what *ELSE* is unity besides binding the world to one particular ideology??? I mean, perhaps you may view it as cheap, but

Less than 160 years. The wealth of nations was written in 1776, and feudalism was already dead at the time.

I never said that capitalism had triumphed, and you would even know that fascism is exactly the same as laissez-faire capitalism. In any case, failings of capitalism do not prove Marxism, at this point nothing could prove Marxism but the Marxian revolution, as the tendency of Marxian theorists to idolize Marx and keep on trying to keep his theories alive has become a point of openness and criticism.

Obviously, I am arguing for fascism. Often the important changes come from the top down rather than emerging from the bottom of a pool.

Ok lets try and avoid a tit for tat on your ideology is more stupid that mine, I am curious to know if you really believe that fascism is a viable and sensible alternative to capitalism.

I am peculiar in the Marxist fraternity in that I would like to live as peacefully as possible (I find many of my fellow marxists to be somewhat bloodthirsty, I would also put Trotsky into that category), to that end I would rather a quite transition to a socialist world rather than a bloody revolt.

However the theory goes that the working class will be cuddled along by the ruling elite to prevent an uprising, whilst there is relative prosperity there will be enough left overs to placate the working class and so they will not feel the need to get up off their collective ass and take over. Marx and Trotsky predicted the sought of collapse that we are presently experiencing. The belief is that during a depression the privations forced upon the working class will give them the incentive to take control. Of cousre to do this they need a political awareness, without this the chances are that we will go down the road of nationalism and fascism (being led requires little awareness), which will be disastrous.

Bingo! If nature meant us to be ants or bees we would have six legs.

ruveyn

Sure. And if God intended us to fly He would have given us wings so airplanes are unnatural and should be banned. As an engineer you should be well aware that insects have six legs because of the problems of tiny creatures with balance and locomotion problems.

The problem with a totalitarian government, call it fascism or soviet communism or what they have in China or Iran or Zimbabwe or Saudi Arabia or a few other countries is that the rulers have total power and they are usually ignorant and self serving and intent only on maintaining their own power and wealth whatever the effect on the economy or the populace and they do this by employing an army of thugs to torture and rape and kill anyone opposing them or indicating they might be doing stupid things. I am not fond of corrupt thugs.

Nature didn't meant us to fly, but man have managed to fly without having natural wings, but I wonder what that has to do with facism.

I just have read this thread, which is quite interesting.

AG, I have to ask what is the true defnition and nature of Facism?
Because I frankly cannot really answer that, I mean, the word has become a pejorative, and people often relate it to the nazi germany and italian state during World War 2, given that they lost the war, and the term being related to them and given the pejorative nature of it, it seems to be questionable and biased, which I think the same can be applied to opinions, american opinions related to different types of socialism which make the relation to Stalin.

Even the term 'regime' seems to be questionable, as 'facism', for probably lacking a purely unbiased value, which probably doesn't have, when it is used against a government that the west doesn't aprove such as the Sadam Hussein regime for example.

To cite the Saddam Hussein regime as questionable insofar as its desirability is concerned no matter the West's preferences seems to me to be unattached to reality in a major way. The current politics in Iraq does not speak well for the culture as a whole but the butchery and horror of Saddam's regime cannot be defended under any circumstances.

Setting up checks and balances that extend below the State is certainly Not in the interest of fascist regime. In order to crush opposition the government needs the ability to go to ANY length, no matter how brutal, to assert its dominance. One of the best way of doing this is to prohibit civilians from possessing firearms or weapons of any kind. I seriously doubt that Roberto D'aubisson and Alfredo Stroessner had any checks and balances in their fascist regimes!

Last edited by Haliphron on 08 Feb 2009, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Because something is recorded as Plato's wisdom is no recommendation unless it undergoes critical analysis. There is an awful lot of crap in Plato.

Nothings wrong with it, excavtly. Nazism, Iranian fascism, etc, are evil.
But, humanity is a pack species, requiring alpha's, leadership, etc.
A so-called "benevolent fascism" has the potential to be the best thing for humanity.
Remember, people are NOT equal! The uneducated, unintelligent peoples' opinions CANNOT be equal to or approaching the value of weighed and measured thoughts of better people.
It may sound cruel; but, it's honest. Better than lying to and manipulating the lesser people into believing your opinion is theirs.

Actually, we don't fly. We build machines that fly (or float in air) and then strap ourselves on (or in) them. Our bones and muscles are too dense for flight.

ruveyn

Right. We don't fly, we attach ourselves to flying machines and we don't travel on water we use boats and we don't travel high speed on land, we attach ourselves to trains or automobiles and we don't travel to the moon we attach ourselves to rockets. As a matter of fact, we are totally fixed in space and helpless.

Unfortunately these alphas are mostly arrogant smug self serving jerks that end up killing a lot of people who object to being mistreated.