Randomness or Design?

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also the human brain and most organic stuff is so complex that it's frankly ridiculous to think that someone designed it.

well, first, natural selection is not random, second, even though we are discussing scifi, and considering that the aliens thing can be considered somehow of a modern mythology, the physical difference between humanoid lifeforms can be explained with the environmental aspect of their respective planet, of course according to evolution, within the fictional universe I mean. And well, that is the issue with astrobiologists in real life I believe, on how life forms on other planets that would support life would be, and how they evolve with an environment that would be different from earth.

Okay, I'll remove the logos from all computers, therefore they weren't designed.



... uh, huh? How does that compute?

a computer has screws and stuff so you can see that someone put it together, i have none of that!

Ironically, what I extract from the above is that designed things might give rise to random results, but a potentially non-designed flaw from prevent randomness in the outcome.


I do not think a beehive is more simple or less sophisticated than a beaver dam, but I'm not convinced bees are more intelligent than beavers.

I do not really know what you mean by "sophisticated", it seems a circular notion that if we consider something designed by intelligence of a high level (which itself is not a well defined concept) then it is more sophisticated because it requires more intelligence because it is more sophisticated (than some other less sophisticated thing which required less intelligence because it was less sophisticated, which we know because it required less intelligence, as can be determined by its lesser sophistication.....and so on......).

Neither.



That is simply not true. Many people who believe evolution happened also believe a single deity created the universe and all in it.

The simple fact is we have no technology that allows us to quantify and measure the existence of deities, if there is such a deity as described by the bible (for instance), this entity has chosen to veil themselves from scientific examination/observation (up to and at this time). I would gather they would have and know their reasons for enacting such a choice if this is the case.

If such an entity exists, and chooses to allow us to detect its existence using scientific methods, then and only then could this deity's existence be reckoned about or with utilizing scientific means.

the problem with people who believe humans were designed is that they can only see it from a human perspective. the truth is a human has no purpose, there's no reason, a computer has a purpose a reason, it's designed for something.

RANDOMLY? You do realize that its impossible to generate a truly random series of bits without some kind of specialized quantum device like a thermionic noise generator coupled with an ADC converter. The "random" bits are created using Deterministic algoriths so they DO indeed have a pattern.



EXACTLY!
Thats whats so silly about religion; its so humanistic.

Why can't there be randomness and design?

Yes, given the relation some put between ID and aesthetics, and concluding it must be because of that, it's problematic enough to be considered that valid, at least comming from that.

If humans were designed then the Designer is a howling incompetent. Look at the lumbar region of the human spine. Proof positive that we were unintelligently designed if we were designed at all. Our back is more fit for an animal that walks on all fours.

ruveyn

That's where you come in, ruveyn. We need you to re-design the human being.

Evolution is an odd deal. The individual mutations are random but evolution always flows in the direction of a more successful species. The human brain is the result of mutations that increase brain function always enhancing survival over hundreds of millions of years.

Now this does not prevent a divine creator from existing, it simply means he only created the conditions for an intelligent species to evolve, rather than actually designing them piece by piece.

As for the "who created God" question, the answer is simpler then you'd think. Because he existed before the universe, he exists outside of time, which is a property of the universe. Meaning he has always existed in comparison to time, but he doesn't even see time in the simple linear (or at least near-linear) fashion we do.

Natural selection, selects on reproductive success. The organisms with the wherewithall to successfully reproduce or more likely to pass on the characteristics which bring success to the next generation. Intelligence is much overrated. Ants and roaches are more successful at reproducing than we are. The ants have been around for a quarter of a billion years. Our kind has been around for less than a half million years. Long after we are extinct the ants and roaches will be around.

ruveyn

Not if I have a say in it.

I used to believe in the evolutionary "molecule-to-man" theory, but through the years I have changed that into believing in creation. I found that it took more faith to imagine that I evolved from nothing than it did for me to believe that I was made by a Creator. I never did like the full title of Charles Darwin’s "Origin of Species" book; which is "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life."

Belief is so passe. We don't ask that you have believe anything, merely that you accept the evidence before you.