Thoughts on the Tibet issue.

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Dussel
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21 Mar 2009, 4:36 am

Henriksson wrote:

Fuzzy wrote:

The fact is, they haven't been their own country since before the founding of the united states. Imperial china controlled them too.

And Imperial china occupied them so that someone else wouldnt.

It's been China's territory for the 17th century forward, if I'm not mistaken.

Very complex: The current treaty regulation the border in this Region is the Russian-Sino-British treaty of 1914. This treaty regulates the border between British India and China and is part of the Deal between Russia, China and the British Empire to define their claims in this region. This treaty put Tibet under Chinese suzerainty; a semi-independent status:

Quote:

Article 2. The Governments of Great Britain and China recognizing that Tibet is under the suzerainty of China, and recognizing also the autonomy of Outer Tibet, engage to respect the territorial integrity of the country, and to abstain from interference in the administration of Outer Tibet (including the selection and installation of the Dalai Lama), which shall remain in the hands of the Tibetan Government at Lhasa.

But also demilitarized Tibet. This is formal still the position of international law, except we put newer concepts like the question the right of people for self-determination into accord, but this right is generally seen as highly problematic.

http://tibetjustice.org/materials/treat ... ies16.html

ruveyn
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21 Mar 2009, 5:48 am

Cyanide wrote:

I support independence for the Tibetans, Uyghurs, Basques, and whatever other groups there are that are striving for independence.
However, I did not support independence for Kosovo.

Are you willing to die or otherwise pay for Tibetan or Basque independence? Or do you sit on the side line cheering for your favorite team? Would you send the son of your neighbor to fight and perhaps die for Tibetan or Basque independence? If not, say why. If so, say why.

I have a simple rule:

What is mine is mine, what is yours is yours and what is his is his.

It has never gotten me into trouble.

ruveyn

Henriksson
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21 Mar 2009, 6:19 am

ruveyn wrote:

I have a simple rule:

What is mine is mine, what is yours is yours and what is his is his.

It has never gotten me into trouble.

ruveyn

But it does make you look like an egocentric douchebag.

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gina-ghettoprincess
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21 Mar 2009, 6:21 am

Henriksson wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I have a simple rule:

What is mine is mine, what is yours is yours and what is his is his.

It has never gotten me into trouble.

ruveyn

But it does make you look like an egocentric douchebag.

Well stated, Henriksson.

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ruveyn
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21 Mar 2009, 7:15 am

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I have a simple rule:

What is mine is mine, what is yours is yours and what is his is his.

It has never gotten me into trouble.

ruveyn

But it does make you look like an egocentric douchebag.

Well stated, Henriksson.

That is because I am an egocentric douchebag. And I am bloody proud of it, too. I will never be tainted by altruism. Never!

ruveyn

IdahoAspie
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21 Mar 2009, 10:17 am

Dussel wrote:

jrknothead wrote:

When my country was occupied by a hostile power, the most powerful nation in the world in fact, we pulled ourselves up by the bootstraps, kicked their asses back across the atlantic, and became the world's most powerful nation ourselves. ...

The USA were able to win the war because:

1) The colonies in West Indies were more important for Britain in this time
2) The USA could play with an ally: France which tried to get hold of the British colonies in west Indies

If you can name a big power which would risk a war with China over Tibet ...

India was successful in stopping oppression of the British.

0_equals_true
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21 Mar 2009, 10:27 am

IdahoAspie wrote:

India was successful in stopping oppression of the British.

I think you mean by the British. India was successful in gaining independence a large part due to peaceful protest. Although it split up to and resulted in Pakistan, part of which became Bangladesh.

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21 Mar 2009, 10:35 am

0_equals_true wrote:

IdahoAspie wrote:

India was successful in stopping oppression of the British.

I think you mean by the British. India was successful in gaining independence a large part due to peaceful protest. Although it split up to and resulted in Pakistan, part of which became Bangladesh.

I think the split was a good thing though, at least for India.

0_equals_true
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21 Mar 2009, 12:05 pm

IdahoAspie wrote:

I think the split was a good thing though, at least for India.

Which split the India or Pakistan or West/East Pakistan Bangladesh?

I think Bangladesh has mostly made friends with India and vice versa. The other there are a lot of words that still much misunderstanding and paranoia on both sides.

There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan though. Just certain parts of India are particularly Hindu nationalist and this causes tensions. Also Ghandi is more revered outside India nowadays in reality. They certainly don't support his ideals on the whole.

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21 Mar 2009, 12:25 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

IdahoAspie wrote:

I think the split was a good thing though, at least for India.

Both

Dussel
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21 Mar 2009, 4:46 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

IdahoAspie wrote:

India was successful in stopping oppression of the British.

I think you mean by the British. India was successful in gaining independence a large part due to peaceful protest. Although it split up to and resulted in Pakistan, part of which became Bangladesh.

It was not the least an economic question, as so often: Running and defending British India was an expensive issue. The revenue of Empire was hardly sufficient to cover the cost to run the Empire.

Running an Empire is one hand a political issue, on the other a business. The British Empire was originally created as business model and when the times change, it was a good idea to get rip off it.

anna-banana
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22 Mar 2009, 7:50 am

ruveyn wrote:

aka010101 wrote:

No ryuven, that is NOT good sense, that is pretty much saying that anyone outside america isn't worth anything.

No. I am saying I pay most attention to that which is good for me and mine. There are a great many things in the world that are valuable to me that are not in the United States. There are loads of good ideas available world wide.

Having said that, the United States is my house. Here I live. I am concerned for its proper maintenance and safety because it promotes the safety and welfare of me and mine.

I simply do not see the benefits of worrying about Tibet. Does Tibet have resources that are necessary for my comfort and that of my family? Will worrying about Tibet add a dollar to my bank account, a year to my life, an inch to my height? If not, then what is in it for me to worry about Tibet.

If Tibet disappeared tomorrow will I be endangered or will bad things happen to me?

ruveyn

so what are the benefits of worrying about autistic people? do they have any resources? no, plus the NT taxmoney goes to support them. will worrying about them add a dollar to NTs account, a year to NTs life, an inch to their height? no it won't.

if the autistics just disappeared toworrow will anyone be endangered or will bad things happen to anyone?

why should the NT majority worry about them?

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ruveyn
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22 Mar 2009, 9:22 am

anna-banana wrote:

why should the NT majority worry about them?

Why indeed? Do you wish to be worried about? Do you have an a priori claim on the time, energy and other resources of NTs? Help yourself. That is the most reliable help you will receive anywhere, anytime.

ruveyn

anna-banana
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22 Mar 2009, 10:29 am

ruveyn wrote:

anna-banana wrote:

why should the NT majority worry about them?

are you being sarcastic?

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ducasse
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22 Mar 2009, 10:54 am

^ I think he's being a sincere, self-reliant American conservative, allowing himself to use the doctrine of enlightened self-interest as a cover for amorality.

ruveyn
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22 Mar 2009, 11:04 am

ducasse wrote:

^ I think he's being a sincere, self-reliant American conservative, allowing himself to use the doctrine of enlightened self-interest as a cover for amorality.

What is amoral about not imposing on the life, energy, time and property of other people?

Simple rule:

what is yours is yours, what is his is his, what is mine is mine

ruveyn

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