Student Loans

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The income inequality here in the US is one thing that makes me ashamed to be American. It's near third world levels. The right-wing republicans and the libertards are the ones who keep it that way. I'd personally like to get rid of capitalism altogether but having things be like in Europe would at least be a major improvement.

I gotta back up Orwell here.

loans of any kind are evil. not only do i think a college education is rediculouse now, i would never pay to go to college. but you would think it would be in sociatys best intrest to have everyone in your population educated. that way people get better jobs, live longer because they make better choices and the government makes more money in tax collection. but whatever, when your paying back your bagillions of dollars back in student loans i'll be entirely debt free

In this sense, Europe and America are not different qualitatively - the difference is quantitative. Europe didn't get where it is overnight - in fact, the US has been ahead of most of Europe on many measures in the past. And one US political party has favored things like school lunches, head-start, government support of universities, and raising the minimum wage much more than the other party.

I was very, very fortunate. I was born at the tail end of the baby boom. So, by the time that I started college, the politicians had been competing with each other to see who could provide the best deal for students. Although I was poor, I was able to attend one of the best private liberal arts colleges in the country.

Then, along came Romping Rabies, and he put an end to all of those niceties.

The present system is just plain stupid--poor people who are educated at high level colleges are just going to have to emigrate--there is no way that they will be able to repay the loans. The loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy court, and the loan companies can raise the rates to any rate they wish. The only viable option now is to renounce one's citizenship, and start afresh in another country, if one wishes to be educated.

I disagree with the economists here--higher education has benefits that greatly exceed purely economic considerations. Even if you never find employment as an economist, you become a better person for having studied economics. We're supposed to reside in some weird sort of democracy, where people have a say in who runs the country. In such a political situation, it would be better if everyone were elected. Otherwise, government would depend on nothing more than the most banal of slogans.

Oh, the education system. This is a thread I can get into.

College really shouldn't be necessary, but it is. I think there's 2 reasons why a Bachelor's degree has suddenly become virtually required to make a decent living: Public K-12 has been dumbed down to the point that it's useless for anything, and colleges are most likely cutting a deal with businesses.

Also, as a result of higher education becoming a "need", the quality of it has been severely lowered. As my best friend put it, "high school doesn't prepare you for college which prepares you for nothing." A lot of colleges these days (with exceptions, of course), have become nothing more than profit-machine diploma mills. They charge you huge amounts of money coupled with stupid fees, so you can waste 4 years getting a half-assed "education" for a piece of paper. Disagree if you wish, but I think colleges cut a deal with businesses to not hire anyone who doesn't have a Bachelor's, so they can make more money.

I haven't really found much benefit of going to college. They make me take a bunch of stupid gen ed classes that I don't want. Supposedly it's so I can be a more "well-rounded individual," but in reality it's just for money.
Honestly, the only reason I'm going is so that I can make a decent living. Don't get me wrong, I want to learn, but school just makes it boring, slow, and sometimes stressful. I've learned so much more useful information out of school than in it. I'm paying thousands of dollars a year to have a bunch of classes taught by grad students (at least half of whom are idiots).

Most subjects of study in college are just useless anyway. A lot of people who have made successful businesses never went to college (and if they did, sometimes it wasn't for business). Most IT guys and computer programmers already knew how to program and could fulfill 90% of the job requirements. About the only subjects of study I can see having any use for college are ones where you do lab work. So pretty much besides the sciences/engineering, you can learn more (and better) by reading books, like AG said earlier.

What we need to is make K-12 education better (by abolishing the Department of Education and moving it to the state level), and have more opportunities for internships/apprenticeships for those in high school. When K-12 education starts to better prepare people for the real world, we can make college just for smart people who want to study the sciences or continue their education. As a result, college will become cheaper (from lower demand), and quality will rise (since it'll only start accepting smart people). That's how it used to be, and that's how it still should be.

As for loans/grants, I am definitely for those. Anyone who's smart enough should be able to have the opportunity to go to college if they so choose.

I am not going to defend the current system at all. I don't even like the college system.

Well, here are my responses:
1) I don't believe that education actually improves people, unless they actually want education.
2) I hate democracy.
3) College doesn't necessarily give a good background on what people should know for voting purposes.
4) I'd bet that government will always depend on nothing more than the most banal of slogans. People aren't devoted enough to see much more than that.

My country transitioned from funding students who qualified due to their academic records, to a student loan system years ago.

Many more people now attend university, many more jobs now demand "higher education", and evidently, we are developing extreme skill-shortage problems (to the extent where we are having difficulty staffing health care facilities for instance).

In response to the skills shortage issue, we have been importing highly skilled immigrants (advertising ourselves as a place where their skills will be in demand), who we then set to driving taxis.

On the bright side, if a local politician is to be believed, our criminals are now too stupid to use motor-way off-ramps/exits.