On School Prayer and the Pledge

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You can find all kinds of places online on what the original pledge was (it wasn't much different from when it was written until the most offending words were added in 1954 (changes so simple they didn't change the meaning at all.)) The author was actually a minister and chose not to include "god." It was also written as a poem and as such works much better without those 2 words.

I also get tired of those who ignorantly claim the US is a Christian Nation - the text of the Treaty of Tripoli would refute that.

Good "nontract" on that:

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php

I generally get really skeptical when someone says something "should be obvious".


Sounds fair to me. Sounds like people in general just don't like to listen to complainers from either side.


Not true.

Agreed.


I am not a nationalist, and indeed not even especially patriotic. I see no particular reason why I should have such great loyalty to the American republic.


Are you implying that we've stopped doing any of those things since Obama's inauguration?


Feel-good patriotism crap.

When I mouthed this pledge all through my early school years most of the time I had no concept of what I was pledging to or why I was doing it. It started each school day as if, during the night of each day, I might have become a traitor and therefor would refuse to speak the words. The ceremony strikes me as insane in concept and intent whether or not I accepted the pledge.

Yes.

Why I was just listening to NPR, and, for example, the panel on the program pretty much seemed in agreement that Obama's anti-terror policy is pretty much the same as the policy employed by the Bush administration in its last year or so, for all intents and purposes.

Well... we haven't. Twoshots is right. I haven't seen a whole ton of change I can believe in.

Aye. A thousand times Aye.

Wow - that is extremely well-said! I'll be stealing that line for future comebacks to the 'oppressed' super-majority.



Obviously, since God can't even spell "allowed."

I've always been curious: If God is so powerful, if {Insert Your Religion Here} is so correct, wouldn't people naturally gravitate towards that religion anyway? How weak does one's religion have to be that if kids are only allowed to pray everywhere except for school it's not enough and your God will disappear?

What's the phrase I'm looking for ... Oh yeah; "Epic lack of faith."


*Edit for grammar. Damn! I still can't type this week! And in a post where I'm criticizing someone else's spelling!*

Last edited by JoJerome on 24 May 2009, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

I believe that we are not torturing prisoners any more.

I believe that Obama will not attack another country without just cause.

I believe that Obama plans to get us out of Iraq, while leaving the country strong enough to survive on its own.

I believe that Obama will not spy on citizens without real reason to believe they are a danger to the US.

I believe that was intended as a pun... prayers aren't allowed to be "aloud" in schools

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you too; do you believe that?

Obama is Bush 2 at this point (unless your idea of president Bush is the way the administration was run in the immediate few years after 9/11)

Look, I'm a super-liberal myself, and I wish Obama would adopt all of his campaign promises. I really do.

But the changes in tone and policy are like a breath of fresh air. Just look at his Notre Dame speech... he was trying to unite the pro-life and pro-choice people to work together to make abortion unnecessary. You know that Bush/Cheney put their efforts toward dividing the people. That in itself speaks volumes!

It does teach a lesson. It teaches self-lessness, caring, how to help people, that good deeds matter in a community, having a heart for those less fortunate, and the ways we can make our home environments a better place when we all pitch in.

I did it voluntarily and with other kids and let me just say it never hurts anyone to do things like that outside the classroom heck it made us into good citizens and taught us life skills.

I too am against mandatory prayer in schools and colleges. I was first taught at a protestant school (Bishop Cottons, the "Eton of the East"), where I had to reciete the Lord's prayer everyday during assembly. Then, I studied in a "secular" school, where a statue of Ganesha was placed every month before the immersion season. There was also this period when we had to recite Sanskrit slokas. However, I felt a need to do this, as the teacher who recited them was blind. I don't regret the sympathy towards him, as it's difficult for a disabled person to get a job in India.

Now, I'm studying at a catholic college where a gospel song is played every morning over the speakers, followed by a prayer.

I don't disrespect the religions in question, I just dislike forced prayer. Prayer should come from the heart.

Well said.

I will never understand why prayer was in public schools to begin with.