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Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 12:58 pm

Can we please get back on topic.



marshall
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08 Jun 2012, 2:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

Kant was a douchebag and selfishness and hoarding lead to the destruction of society as those without the means to survive begin to see those holding on to more than enough as their enemy.


You set yourself as a judge as to whether another person has enough or more than enough? Who are you?

You can judge you own needs. You are in no position to judge anyone else's needs.

Unless of course, you have died, gone to heaven and become God.

ruveyn


What gives you the moral authority to tell me what I can or cannot judge? Did God personally hand you a stone tablet where it was inscribed "Do not initiate coercive force upon thy neighbor nor commit fraud, otherwise thou art permitted and encouraged to hoard as much for thyself as possible and treat thy neighbor as subhuman garbage".

As long as this is about your personal opinions and nothing else of logical substance, I'll just have to remind you that I am not alone in my way of thinking. Most human beings are not unfeeling robots that obey a simplistic set of rules and are otherwise happy being treated as hopeless slaves.



Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 2:34 pm

I hate the fact that America gets into wars and some times does not pay for them.



marshall
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08 Jun 2012, 2:57 pm

MXH wrote:
What ever happened to the american dream? I doubt youve heard of that concept but ill explain it. See there was this idea back in the times of cavemen that people would go out and do the best they could and work their way from rags to riches. Now what we do is condemn those in riches until they give you what you feel you deserve. If you were a guy saying you deserve a hot model youd be laughed out of wp and most places irl. And its the EXACT same concept. You have to work for those things. Some people are luckier than others and achieve things more easily. But bitching about it and protesting is not going to fix anything.


Nobody is talking about deserving a "hot modal" and it is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME CONCEPT. That's just so off base and out of touch that it comes off as insulting to the point of asking to be punched square between the eyes. People are talking about deserving enough money to just exist without living an utterly horrible experience. The level of black-and-white thinking in this kind of fairy-tale right-wing rhetoric is stupid beyond belief. They act as though there should be no middle ground between "getting rich" and being homeless and suffering in abject poverty. The fact that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs had any free time and cash to play around with and start up their venture indicates that they did not come from an impoverished background. But apparently we need people living in constant insecurity and misery or else nobody will be motivated to work harder. :roll:



Kraichgauer
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08 Jun 2012, 3:22 pm

My Dad had worked his ass off his whole life, and he never got rich.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 3:28 pm

I dislike that America is not hard enough and strict enough with law and order.



MXH
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08 Jun 2012, 3:41 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
MXH wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Way to assume all those who make low wages only have the skill level to flip burgers. Sorry but I feel like construction/painting work like my dad does takes more physical effort than being some rich CEO. There is no reason one person should have more than enough money for 100 people to live on while there are people in poverty. People need to have the means to survive, as simple as that...if the government wont adress the problem and provide help as I said before the citizens have no obligation to support the government...and if anything an obligation to try and overthrow it.


What ever happened to the american dream? I doubt youve heard of that concept but ill explain it. See there was this idea back in the times of cavemen that people would go out and do the best they could and work their way from rags to riches. Now what we do is condemn those in riches until they give you what you feel you deserve. If you were a guy saying you deserve a hot model youd be laughed out of wp and most places irl. And its the EXACT same concept. You have to work for those things. Some people are luckier than others and achieve things more easily. But bitching about it and protesting is not going to fix anything.


What I am condemning is the idea that people should be left to die, if they do not have enough money to make ends meet so I support having a social safety network. Besides the 'you're just jealous' argument has already been attempted and failed so as far as I'm concerned its BS. Go ahead try and twist it around....also just going along with what I know to be BS wouldn't fix anything either. So might as well b*tch and protest just the same. And last I checked the american dream was not work your ass off for sh*t wages you can hardly make ends meet with...nor was it leave the citizens to die when they are struggling. If the government adopts such a policy cool, but I imagine the majority wont stand for it at least I would hope not.


I never said we shouldnt have safety nets. Read my posts again. Im going against your hate of the "wealthy". Guess what, people will abuse that system to the point that it will destroy the government.



Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

Also I am sick of the left vs right wingers in America both parties have hurt America.



Sweetleaf
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08 Jun 2012, 3:49 pm

MXH wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
MXH wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Way to assume all those who make low wages only have the skill level to flip burgers. Sorry but I feel like construction/painting work like my dad does takes more physical effort than being some rich CEO. There is no reason one person should have more than enough money for 100 people to live on while there are people in poverty. People need to have the means to survive, as simple as that...if the government wont adress the problem and provide help as I said before the citizens have no obligation to support the government...and if anything an obligation to try and overthrow it.


What ever happened to the american dream? I doubt youve heard of that concept but ill explain it. See there was this idea back in the times of cavemen that people would go out and do the best they could and work their way from rags to riches. Now what we do is condemn those in riches until they give you what you feel you deserve. If you were a guy saying you deserve a hot model youd be laughed out of wp and most places irl. And its the EXACT same concept. You have to work for those things. Some people are luckier than others and achieve things more easily. But bitching about it and protesting is not going to fix anything.


What I am condemning is the idea that people should be left to die, if they do not have enough money to make ends meet so I support having a social safety network. Besides the 'you're just jealous' argument has already been attempted and failed so as far as I'm concerned its BS. Go ahead try and twist it around....also just going along with what I know to be BS wouldn't fix anything either. So might as well b*tch and protest just the same. And last I checked the american dream was not work your ass off for sh*t wages you can hardly make ends meet with...nor was it leave the citizens to die when they are struggling. If the government adopts such a policy cool, but I imagine the majority wont stand for it at least I would hope not.


I never said we shouldnt have safety nets. Read my posts again. Im going against your hate of the "wealthy". Guess what, people will abuse that system to the point that it will destroy the government.


What hate of the wealthy? I do not hate people for being wealthy, that's stupid....I dislike the attitude that wealthy people are more deserving of a decent life and access to basic means of survival as well as the means to enjoy themselves then non wealthy people. I think there is too much of a divide between the wealthy and poor. Its nothing about hate and I feel insulted someone would think I am going to base my opinions on 'hate' what a crazy notion.

Also if you want to talk about system abuse I am sure I could point to a lot more examples of the very wealthy and government officials themselves abusing the system than examples of people with essentially nothing abusing the system. Lets talk about tax breaks for major corporations, the reverse trickle down system we have going on and well I could continue but I think I'll leave it at that for now. Taking advantage of the social safety net when one needs assistance is not abusing the system that is what those programs are for......to help people.


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Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 3:53 pm

I dislike that our governemnt does nothing to help the people.



Kraichgauer
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08 Jun 2012, 3:53 pm

And I certainly have no hate or envy for the rich. But I do resent, as a poor American, being held responsible for weighing the rest of the country down. And it really pisses me off that the well off feel that they don't have to pay 4% more taxes, but that I should have to pay income tax. You can't get blood from a stone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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08 Jun 2012, 4:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And I certainly have no hate or envy for the rich. But I do resent, as a poor American, being held responsible for weighing the rest of the country down. And it really pisses me off that the well off feel that they don't have to pay 4% more taxes, but that I should have to pay income tax. You can't get blood from a stone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Bill, its okay. I hate that you have to pay taxes, too! :thumright:



ShamelessGit
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08 Jun 2012, 4:46 pm

1. The government uses drones to bomb funerals, to bomb people who come to help the survivors of other bombings, and define every male above the age of 16 in the bombing area as a combatant.

2. Suspected terrorists are held indefinitely without trial and sometimes tortured.

3. 95% of federal elections are won by the candidate who has the most money.

4. The military has hundreds of bases around the world that serve no purpose. Our useless wars cost less than 30% of our military budget.

5. Only 14% of Americans in 2000 believed in the scientifically recognized version of evolution.

6. The president has the authority and has used it at least once to execute US citizens abroad without trial.

7. Warren Buffet, the richest man in the world, pays a smaller percentage in taxes than his secretary who makes 60k a year.

8. 70% of shooters in Florida get away because of stand your ground laws.

9. The NDAA gives the president the authority to detain US citizens without trial indefinitely. He might also have the right to establish martial law because of some Bush thing I don't remember exactly.

10. The USA is the unhealthiest and one of the poorest educated industrialized countries on earth.

11. The whole country is broke, private and public.

12. Nearly the whole country is duped by the media and the two party system into quarreling about stupid s**t that doesn't matter so that they won't think about this other stuff.



Kraichgauer
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08 Jun 2012, 4:54 pm

JWC wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And I certainly have no hate or envy for the rich. But I do resent, as a poor American, being held responsible for weighing the rest of the country down. And it really pisses me off that the well off feel that they don't have to pay 4% more taxes, but that I should have to pay income tax. You can't get blood from a stone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Bill, its okay. I hate that you have to pay taxes, too! :thumright:


As of yet, I don't have to pay any income tax. But Romney and other righties figure I and other poor Americans should, while the rich get tax cuts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



JWC
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08 Jun 2012, 5:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JWC wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And I certainly have no hate or envy for the rich. But I do resent, as a poor American, being held responsible for weighing the rest of the country down. And it really pisses me off that the well off feel that they don't have to pay 4% more taxes, but that I should have to pay income tax. You can't get blood from a stone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Bill, its okay. I hate that you have to pay taxes, too! :thumright:


As of yet, I don't have to pay any income tax. But Romney and other righties figure I and other poor Americans should, while the rich get tax cuts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Lucky you. I bumped up to a higher tax bracket last year and had to unexpectedly fork over about 1/3 of my daughter's college fund. :hmph:



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08 Jun 2012, 5:43 pm

JWC wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JWC wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And I certainly have no hate or envy for the rich. But I do resent, as a poor American, being held responsible for weighing the rest of the country down. And it really pisses me off that the well off feel that they don't have to pay 4% more taxes, but that I should have to pay income tax. You can't get blood from a stone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Bill, its okay. I hate that you have to pay taxes, too! :thumright:


As of yet, I don't have to pay any income tax. But Romney and other righties figure I and other poor Americans should, while the rich get tax cuts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Lucky you. I bumped up to a higher tax bracket last year and had to unexpectedly fork over about 1/3 of my daughter's college fund. :hmph:

I honestly don't see how you can interpret what he said as LUCK. You're envying someone for making less than you. That's what you're saying, you realize?