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GoonSquad
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24 Oct 2013, 1:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Obamacare does nothing to control prices, they will continue to skyrocket. Now you get fined if you don't want to pay for health insurance.

.


That penalty is $95.00.

But let me ask, why would you not buy reasonably priced insurance? I'm pretty sure you CANNOT pay more than 8% of your income under the law...
So why wouldn't you buy it?

Let me tell you a little story. Once upon a time there was a guy named me. He was having a lot of back and leg pain, but he didn't have insurance. AND he was smart enough to know that you NEVER,NEVER,NEVER go to the doctor to get a Dx for something that might be expensive if you don't have insurance, because if you do, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE INSURANCE AGAIN.

So, he just ate naproxens by the handful and toughed it out. Then, last year, he had an opportunity to buy insurance again and he finally went to the doctor. Unfortunately, it was too late. By the time the doctors figured out what was wrong, he was paralyzed from the hips down. $150,000 worth of surgery later, he can hobble around on crutches, but that's all.

Now, thanks to the ACA, nobody ever needs to be afraid of going to the doctor again.

Now. thanks to the ACA, insurance companies cannot take your money, but deny your claim because it was preexisting.

And that's a big point right there. The ACA only works if everyone participates. You might be young and healthy and feel as if you do not need insurance. I get that. I felt that way when I was young too. But that's BS. Everyone needs insurance. Even young people get cancer because of bad genes, or broken arms and legs because they did something stupid while driving, sporting, or otherwise living. That's what young people do.

Without the ACA or something like it, all those young, uninsured people would become burdens on the system, driving up premiums for everyone else. Right-wingers are always preaching personal responsibility. Well, buying insurance and making sure you can take care of yourself is being personally responsible. No wonder Mit Romney supports this law. It's a very right-wing law.

So I say, take responsibility for yourself and buy your insurance. Society is done paying for your unexpected healthcare emergencies... you dirty, lazy, irresponsible hippies! :P


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24 Oct 2013, 1:59 pm

There are many misconceptions from both sides, however, I have truly yet to find someone "for it" that has actually read the Affordable Healthcare Act.

By the way, I will say that I do not currently live in the United States. I live in a US territory where Obamacare type insurance has been the norm for many years now. It has truly been a disaster.

1. It takes months to see a specialist, some specialists aren't even available any longer as they have left the island because of the low pay of insurers with the socialized medical plans
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.
3. People with the free or affordable insurance that do not work or work part time go to the doctors for anything. My grandmother goes just when she's bored if she is "not feeling right" so she has someone to talk to because it doesn't cost her anything or much.
4. People fill up the doctor's offices with things as simple as a headache so that they don't have to purchase OTC Tylenol and the government can pay for it through their issuance
5. We now cannot find ANY private plan with out of network coverage, thus my son's speech therapies are paid 100% by us in addition to insurance, as he needs them in english and there are only a handful of speech therapist who claim to know english yet none actually offer any therapies in english
6. Getting medications for such chronic conditions as asthma or diabetes now mean that every month you must go to the doctor and get a prescription because in order to make more money, since so many are on public insurance, the doctors will only write prescriptions for 30 days even for asthma, allergies, etc. Many times if I cannot go to the doctor my son ends up with no medications in case of an attack.
7. Visiting a doctor is not a scheduled appointment any longer, but rather a day long wait once you are actually in the office. There are so many people who visit the doctor, many who pay nothing or peanuts and don't even work, that the rest of us have to arrive at 6-7AM and sometimes be seen by a doctor at 2-3PM thus missing an entire day of work just for the 1st visit. If you need any lab work done, that takes you another day and yet another day for your doctor to review. A simple visit takes literally 3 days which is a huge deal when you work and have limited sick time.

This is JUST the beginning. You have no idea how bad this will actually be. Women here have kids left and right because they can now go to PRIVATE hospitals, give birth and not have to pay a dime or pay very little to have their child. I had ONE child because it cost me over 4K in hospital bills even with insurance. Others here pay NOTHING and have 4 kids and no job or a minimum wage partime job.

I am not saying that if someone is critically ill they should not be able to receive healthcare, etc. however, that is NOT how this is set up. You will see HUGE numbers of people in waiting rooms now just "waiting for a check up because it is free and WE all will pay for it".

PS by the way, my neighbors, cousins, etc. are ALL on the government insurance here...they all work under the table, live better than I do, take trips all over in the summer and can HIDE every cent of their income and thus their "insurance premium" is PEANUTS in comparison to mine...the government could care less because they have insurance...it is easier to raise the price of insurance on those who supply a W2 than to go after the THOUSANDS here who work under the table in cash and claim to be poor to get the government subsidized insurance



Last edited by whatamess on 24 Oct 2013, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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24 Oct 2013, 2:10 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if all these righties were to be collectively placed into the WABAC machine and taken back to their beloved dog-eat-dog 1890s they would soon come running back to the shelter of the modern social contract.


This.


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hanyo
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24 Oct 2013, 2:41 pm

whatamess wrote:
T
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.


It's already like that in the US. For many people without insurance that is their only access to a doctor because federally funded hospitals have to see you even if you can't pay. For most of my life until I got Medicaid last year that was the only medical care available to me.



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24 Oct 2013, 2:43 pm

hanyo wrote:
whatamess wrote:
T
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.


It's already like that in the US. For many people without insurance that is their only access to a doctor because federally funded hospitals have to see you even if you can't pay. For most of my life until I got Medicaid last year that was the only medical care available to me.

there is no persuading the "every man for himself" crowd. they are stuck in the 19th century.



GoonSquad
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24 Oct 2013, 2:52 pm

auntblabby wrote:
hanyo wrote:
whatamess wrote:
T
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.


It's already like that in the US. For many people without insurance that is their only access to a doctor because federally funded hospitals have to see you even if you can't pay. For most of my life until I got Medicaid last year that was the only medical care available to me.

there is no persuading the "every man for himself" crowd. they are stuck in the 19th century.


Too bad that's not literally true. Where's Mr. Peabody when you need him? :wink:


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auntblabby
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24 Oct 2013, 3:07 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
hanyo wrote:
whatamess wrote:
T
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.


It's already like that in the US. For many people without insurance that is their only access to a doctor because federally funded hospitals have to see you even if you can't pay. For most of my life until I got Medicaid last year that was the only medical care available to me.

there is no persuading the "every man for himself" crowd. they are stuck in the 19th century.


Too bad that's not literally true. Where's Mr. Peabody when you need him? :wink:

yes, i should have said they are all trying to drag the rest of us back to the 19th century with them. they'd probably use us as slaves.



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24 Oct 2013, 3:10 pm

whatamess wrote:
There are many misconceptions from both sides, however, I have truly yet to find someone "for it" that has actually read the Affordable Healthcare Act.

By the way, I will say that I do not currently live in the United States. I live in a US territory where Obamacare type insurance has been the norm for many years now. It has truly been a disaster.

1. It takes months to see a specialist, some specialists aren't even available any longer as they have left the island because of the low pay of insurers with the socialized medical plans
2. Go to any emergency room at any time of the day and the waiting rooms are full to capacity...everything from a kid that threw up once to a guy who got shot and now is lucky enough to have FREE or affordable health insurance paid for by the rest of us...now they are not just in the public hospitals, but also in the private hospitals. I can assure you that when you or a loved one is in a hospital ER and the guy next to you is chained to their bed because they are some crook, you won't be happy for the amount you pay for insurance vs them.
3. People with the free or affordable insurance that do not work or work part time go to the doctors for anything. My grandmother goes just when she's bored if she is "not feeling right" so she has someone to talk to because it doesn't cost her anything or much.
4. People fill up the doctor's offices with things as simple as a headache so that they don't have to purchase OTC Tylenol and the government can pay for it through their issuance
5. We now cannot find ANY private plan with out of network coverage, thus my son's speech therapies are paid 100% by us in addition to insurance, as he needs them in english and there are only a handful of speech therapist who claim to know english yet none actually offer any therapies in english
6. Getting medications for such chronic conditions as asthma or diabetes now mean that every month you must go to the doctor and get a prescription because in order to make more money, since so many are on public insurance, the doctors will only write prescriptions for 30 days even for asthma, allergies, etc. Many times if I cannot go to the doctor my son ends up with no medications in case of an attack.
7. Visiting a doctor is not a scheduled appointment any longer, but rather a day long wait once you are actually in the office. There are so many people who visit the doctor, many who pay nothing or peanuts and don't even work, that the rest of us have to arrive at 6-7AM and sometimes be seen by a doctor at 2-3PM thus missing an entire day of work just for the 1st visit. If you need any lab work done, that takes you another day and yet another day for your doctor to review. A simple visit takes literally 3 days which is a huge deal when you work and have limited sick time.

This is JUST the beginning. You have no idea how bad this will actually be. Women here have kids left and right because they can now go to PRIVATE hospitals, give birth and not have to pay a dime or pay very little to have their child. I had ONE child because it cost me over 4K in hospital bills even with insurance. Others here pay NOTHING and have 4 kids and no job or a minimum wage partime job.

I am not saying that if someone is critically ill they should not be able to receive healthcare, etc. however, that is NOT how this is set up. You will see HUGE numbers of people in waiting rooms now just "waiting for a check up because it is free and WE all will pay for it".

PS by the way, my neighbors, cousins, etc. are ALL on the government insurance here...they all work under the table, live better than I do, take trips all over in the summer and can HIDE every cent of their income and thus their "insurance premium" is PEANUTS in comparison to mine...the government could care less because they have insurance...it is easier to raise the price of insurance on those who supply a W2 than to go after the THOUSANDS here who work under the table in cash and claim to be poor to get the government subsidized insurance


Regardless of these "drawbacks," the simple fact of the matter is, people who could not have seen a doctor before because it would have led to financial ruin can get medical help now. And that's more than worth the inconveniences.
And as far as your grandma wasting time and resources just to have someone to talk to, perhaps the remedy for that would be for you to be a good grandson and to give her a little of your time and attention.


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ruveyn
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24 Oct 2013, 3:13 pm

auntblabby wrote:
yes, i should have said they are all trying to drag the rest of us back to the 19th century with them. they'd probably use us as slaves.


Yet even more Progressive Liberal bigotry.

ruveyn



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24 Oct 2013, 3:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
yes, i should have said they are all trying to drag the rest of us back to the 19th century with them. they'd probably use us as slaves.


Yet even more Progressive Liberal bigotry.

ruveyn


How so? Everything I've heard from Republicans so far has been making those without pull themselves up by their own bootstraps at the expense of social programs. Sounds pretty much like the political philosophy prominent in the 19h century to me.


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24 Oct 2013, 4:12 pm

Quote:
By the way, I will say that I do not currently live in the United States. I live in a US territory where Obamacare type insurance has been the norm for many years now. It has truly been a disaster.


1. Comparing Puerto Rico to the States is a big of a stretch. And your system isnt even the same.

2. People were showing up for "free" ER care anyway. And others were getting more advanced care and then just walking away from the mind boggling bills. Something had to change.



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24 Oct 2013, 4:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
yes, i should have said they are all trying to drag the rest of us back to the 19th century with them. they'd probably use us as slaves.


Yet even more Progressive Liberal bigotry.

ruveyn


How so? Everything I've heard from Republicans so far has been making those without pull themselves up by their own bootstraps at the expense of social programs. Sounds pretty much like the political philosophy prominent in the 19h century to me.

one who points out bigotry to that mindset of people is in turn called a bigot by such. it is useless to talk to them as they will only turn around the words and use them as a weapon against one. dealing with righties is futile.



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27 Oct 2013, 1:51 am

There could be a fatal glitch for the ACA, if the courts agree with these lawyers:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/ar ... -77922629/

Congress will not fix any glitch in the ACA, as the Republicans will block any effort to. Normally, with any major legislation, there are glitches, but they are often repaired through legislation. Because of the steadfast opposition of Republicans, however, no repair of glitches in the ACA will be forthcoming.

If the ACA goes down because of this, then it will likely be at least another 10 years before we get universal health care in this country. By that time, with states like Texas going blue, it should become somewhat more feasible, with less backlash.



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27 Oct 2013, 1:58 am

what the righties are doing is simply unforgiveable, denying health care to millions of American citizens.



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27 Oct 2013, 6:14 am

beneficii wrote:
There could be a fatal glitch for the ACA, if the courts agree with these lawyers:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/ar ... -77922629/

Congress will not fix any glitch in the ACA, as the Republicans will block any effort to. Normally, with any major legislation, there are glitches, but they are often repaired through legislation. Because of the steadfast opposition of Republicans, however, no repair of glitches in the ACA will be forthcoming.

If the ACA goes down because of this, then it will likely be at least another 10 years before we get universal health care in this country. By that time, with states like Texas going blue, it should become somewhat more feasible, with less backlash.


Well if they go by that reasoning, the individual mandate would still stand, but those in states that refused to set up state run exchanges would not receive subsidies. Gotta love the way politicians have no trouble harming millions to make a point.


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GoonSquad
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27 Oct 2013, 10:58 am

sonofghandi wrote:
beneficii wrote:
There could be a fatal glitch for the ACA, if the courts agree with these lawyers:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/ar ... -77922629/

Congress will not fix any glitch in the ACA, as the Republicans will block any effort to. Normally, with any major legislation, there are glitches, but they are often repaired through legislation. Because of the steadfast opposition of Republicans, however, no repair of glitches in the ACA will be forthcoming.

If the ACA goes down because of this, then it will likely be at least another 10 years before we get universal health care in this country. By that time, with states like Texas going blue, it should become somewhat more feasible, with less backlash.


Well if they go by that reasoning, the individual mandate would still stand, but those in states that refused to set up state run exchanges would not receive subsidies. Gotta love the way politicians have no trouble harming millions to make a point.


Yeah.... another bit to consider. Those governors who refuse to take federal money to expand Medicaid and set up exchanges are simply giving their own citizens tax money to other states.

That's just nutty.


Silly Republicans. :roll:


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