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The US Government Shut-Down - Whom to Blame

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auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 6:16 pm

^^^
GOOD!! !
they richly deserve the same oblivion that welcomed the whigs so long ago.



Dox47
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12 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/12/the_gop ... _anywhere/


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auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 7:17 pm

well if the GOP and TP split up [or if the TP swallows the GOP and spits out the moderates who reform into a reformed new centrist GOP], it could be good for the centrists and better for America.



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12 Oct 2013, 7:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously think you're mistaking the real President Obama for the caricature the tea party and Republicans had invented even prior to his first election. And I'll remind you, it was the right wing of the GOP who had shut down the government in the first place in order to vindictively rob Obama of his most famous achievement, the Affordable Care Act. If anything, the tea partiers are the ones who come across as the ones who would callously destroy the economy for not getting what they want.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's mostly true, but you guys are missing a VERY SCARY point here... The few smart and evil TPers want to crash the economy to punish Obama and his supporters, but most of the TPers, like Rep. Ted "yoyo" Yoho, REALLY think default would be a good thing and no amount of deal making is going to change their minds...

These guys are from the same Tea Party brain-trust that taught us how women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant via rape... :roll:


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auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 7:28 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously think you're mistaking the real President Obama for the caricature the tea party and Republicans had invented even prior to his first election. And I'll remind you, it was the right wing of the GOP who had shut down the government in the first place in order to vindictively rob Obama of his most famous achievement, the Affordable Care Act. If anything, the tea partiers are the ones who come across as the ones who would callously destroy the economy for not getting what they want.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's mostly true, but you guys are missing a VERY SCARY point here... The few smart and evil TPers want to crash the economy to punish Obama and his supporters, but most of the TPers, like Rep. Ted "yoyo" Yoho, REALLY think default would be a good thing and no amount of deal making is going to change their minds...These guys are from the same Tea Party brain-trust that taught us how women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant via rape... :roll:

on that subject-
"In their desperation, the GOP and Big Business turned to a group of people they didn't fully understand. Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. The GOP have made quite the deal with the devil in siding with these TPers. As one would expect of a group of predominantly fundamentalist Christians, they have the one card in their hand that can never be trumped, never be beaten, can never lose: Irrationality. You can't use reason or logic against irrationality; it always wins."



GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 7:40 pm

auntblabby wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously think you're mistaking the real President Obama for the caricature the tea party and Republicans had invented even prior to his first election. And I'll remind you, it was the right wing of the GOP who had shut down the government in the first place in order to vindictively rob Obama of his most famous achievement, the Affordable Care Act. If anything, the tea partiers are the ones who come across as the ones who would callously destroy the economy for not getting what they want.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's mostly true, but you guys are missing a VERY SCARY point here... The few smart and evil TPers want to crash the economy to punish Obama and his supporters, but most of the TPers, like Rep. Ted "yoyo" Yoho, REALLY think default would be a good thing and no amount of deal making is going to change their minds...These guys are from the same Tea Party brain-trust that taught us how women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant via rape... :roll:

on that subject-
"In their desperation, the GOP and Big Business turned to a group of people they didn't fully understand. Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. The GOP have made quite the deal with the devil in siding with these TPers. As one would expect of a group of predominantly fundamentalist Christians, they have the one card in their hand that can never be trumped, never be beaten, can never lose: Irrationality. You can't use reason or logic against irrationality; it always wins."


Actually, I think the Tea Party will shrivel and die after 2016....

When there's no longer a Black man in the White House, they'll lose interest in politics and go back to professional wrestling.
:wink:


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Kraichgauer
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12 Oct 2013, 8:17 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously think you're mistaking the real President Obama for the caricature the tea party and Republicans had invented even prior to his first election. And I'll remind you, it was the right wing of the GOP who had shut down the government in the first place in order to vindictively rob Obama of his most famous achievement, the Affordable Care Act. If anything, the tea partiers are the ones who come across as the ones who would callously destroy the economy for not getting what they want.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's mostly true, but you guys are missing a VERY SCARY point here... The few smart and evil TPers want to crash the economy to punish Obama and his supporters, but most of the TPers, like Rep. Ted "yoyo" Yoho, REALLY think default would be a good thing and no amount of deal making is going to change their minds...These guys are from the same Tea Party brain-trust that taught us how women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant via rape... :roll:

on that subject-
"In their desperation, the GOP and Big Business turned to a group of people they didn't fully understand. Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. The GOP have made quite the deal with the devil in siding with these TPers. As one would expect of a group of predominantly fundamentalist Christians, they have the one card in their hand that can never be trumped, never be beaten, can never lose: Irrationality. You can't use reason or logic against irrationality; it always wins."


Actually, I think the Tea Party will shrivel and die after 2016....

When there's no longer a Black man in the White House, they'll lose interest in politics and go back to professional wrestling.
:wink:


Ah, but when a woman (Clinton) runs, we can see if their misogyny brings 'em back.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Oct 2013, 9:12 pm

auntblabby wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.

horsepuckey. it is not just what he wants but what the people who ELECTED HIM WANT as well! this is ALL ABOUT GOPTP PUNISHING Obama voters and to hell with the collateral damage- after singlehandedly causing the catastrophe, the TP will run away and cry "the devil* take the hindmost."

*what the GOPTP considers us 99%ers


I agree that the GOP are using a tactic that is in my view, totally outrageous. However, some of the nonsense that has followed in the wake of the shutdown has been stupid and punitive. They don't need to close the World War 2 memorial or chase a man from the Lincoln Memorial for mowing the lawns. It is a tactic that was used during the sequester and it is something worth being condemned in and of itself.


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12 Oct 2013, 9:56 pm

I don't think the GOP is going anywhere but they are going to have some ongoing internecine warfare. The tea party has been on the offensive to date but some return fire is starting from the establishment. There was an article where some business orgs were talking about putting money against tea party people. And there are already some examples of that battle forming up in 2014.

Getting elected to just f things up and scream isnt the party that every conservative signed up for.



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12 Oct 2013, 10:11 pm

91 wrote:
I agree that the GOP are using a tactic that is in my view, totally outrageous. However, some of the nonsense that has followed in the wake of the shutdown has been stupid and punitive. They don't need to close the World War 2 memorial or chase a man from the Lincoln Memorial for mowing the lawns. It is a tactic that was used during the sequester and it is something worth being condemned in and of itself.


Well, it's a little more complicated than that. If someone tries to mow the lawn in front of the Lincoln Memorial and hurts himself and tries to sue the Federal government for allowing him to do it - then what? Without the appropriate staff on hand to curb liability/insurance concerns - you really can't allow people on federal property without incurring a pretty big liability. It perhaps sucks that we have a society as litigious as we do, but it is what it is.


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13 Oct 2013, 12:28 am

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
91 wrote:
I agree that the GOP are using a tactic that is in my view, totally outrageous. However, some of the nonsense that has followed in the wake of the shutdown has been stupid and punitive. They don't need to close the World War 2 memorial or chase a man from the Lincoln Memorial for mowing the lawns. It is a tactic that was used during the sequester and it is something worth being condemned in and of itself.


Well, it's a little more complicated than that. If someone tries to mow the lawn in front of the Lincoln Memorial and hurts himself and tries to sue the Federal government for allowing him to do it - then what? Without the appropriate staff on hand to curb liability/insurance concerns - you really can't allow people on federal property without incurring a pretty big liability. It perhaps sucks that we have a society as litigious as we do, but it is what it is.


Nonsense, if they were worried about being sued they would be chasing people all over the place. My sister is waiting outside of a National Park at the moment, they removed the heads from the taps inside the parks, so you cannot get a drink. Imagine the lawsuit if someone dies in there. It has nothing to do with lawsuits and liability and has everything to do with making the shutdown as visible as possible.


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13 Oct 2013, 12:46 am

91 wrote:

Nonsense, if they were worried about being sued they would be chasing people all over the place. My sister is waiting outside of a National Park at the moment, they removed the heads from the taps inside the parks, so you cannot get a drink. Imagine the lawsuit if someone dies in there. It has nothing to do with lawsuits and liability and has everything to do with making the shutdown as visible as possible.


I'd imagine that the lawsuit would be thrown out immediately, as the poor dehydrated fellow would be trespassing.


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13 Oct 2013, 2:27 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
91 wrote:

Nonsense, if they were worried about being sued they would be chasing people all over the place. My sister is waiting outside of a National Park at the moment, they removed the heads from the taps inside the parks, so you cannot get a drink. Imagine the lawsuit if someone dies in there. It has nothing to do with lawsuits and liability and has everything to do with making the shutdown as visible as possible.


I'd imagine that the lawsuit would be thrown out immediately, as the poor dehydrated fellow would be trespassing.


Not really grounds for automatic dismissal. Google frequent trespass doctrine.


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13 Oct 2013, 12:12 pm

"Republicans are the party that says that government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove it."-- PJ O'Rourke



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13 Oct 2013, 7:10 pm

Dox47 wrote:
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/12/the_gop_isnt_going_anywhere/

slightly different topics: public polls on the GOP, vs. what is happening inside the GOP.

I wish, for the sake of the country, that there was some way to get the pre-Regan Republican party back.



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13 Oct 2013, 7:11 pm

another pertinent quote-
Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. - George Carlin