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The atheist crusades must stop!

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Orwell
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26 Aug 2008, 10:47 pm

burnse22 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
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It is saying that the accusation that atheism is inherently violent and evil is a fallacy and also fantastically hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure it's just a cheap shot at mocking Christians.


The last panel maybe, the others make a good point.

That much I can agree with. The cheapo on pedophiles was in rather poor taste, and even the other panels were a bit straw-man-ish. Though yeah, people who called themselves Christians have done some terrible things. But you know what? "You shall know them by their fruits." I know Christians have done terrible things, but so have atheists, so have Muslims, so have Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. People are people are people, and some people tend to do really crappy things to other people irrespective of what religion or non-religion they claim to believe in.


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iamnotaparakeet
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26 Aug 2008, 10:48 pm

twoshots wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
chever wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
burnse22 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
That cartoon is pretty hateful. Disrespect is one thing, but hate is another.


It makes a valid point.


I don't think so. But if somehow the logic were valid, it wouldn't make the point sound.


Do you mean that the argument would be cogent but still ridiculous in truth?


Valid refers to a correct deduction while cogent refers to a correct induction. For an argument to be sound, its premises have to be true, deductions valid, and inductions cogent. However, in modern philosophies, truth is merely an abstract concept, Popper says induction has no logical basis, so we're left with deductions that can only be valid, but never for certain. BS alert!! !

Cogency is the inductive analog of soundness, not validity.


Incorrect. At least according to all of the geometry textbooks I've studied.

Soundness is a property of an argument which has proper logic (induction and/or deduction)
AND the premises are true.

If the logic is proper but the premises are false, then the argument is unsound.

Also, if the premises are true but the logic isn't correct, then an argument would be unsound.



iamnotaparakeet
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26 Aug 2008, 10:49 pm

Sand wrote:
If you really believe in God, do you believe you can deceive Him?


About what?



Orwell
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26 Aug 2008, 10:50 pm

Sand wrote:
If you really believe in God, do you believe you can deceive Him?

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from here. Why would you ask such a question? And no, an omniscient God cannot be deceived.


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Sand
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26 Aug 2008, 10:52 pm

There is no doubt that some religious organizations have done wonderful things and some have done horrible things. The important question is whether it is religion is the inspiration for the good works or whether the people in these organizations would have acted well whether or not they were religious. And if religious organizations have done horrible things, does that indicate something about the power of religion to divert people from acting badly?



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26 Aug 2008, 10:54 pm

Orwell wrote:
burnse22 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Quote:
It is saying that the accusation that atheism is inherently violent and evil is a fallacy and also fantastically hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure it's just a cheap shot at mocking Christians.


The last panel maybe, the others make a good point.

That much I can agree with. The cheapo on pedophiles was in rather poor taste, and even the other panels were a bit straw-man-ish.


I don't think that the cartoon was perfect, I just think that it shouldn't be rejected automatically as "hate".

Orwell wrote:
Though yeah, people who called themselves Christians have done some terrible things. But you know what? "You shall know them by their fruits." I know Christians have done terrible things, but so have atheists, so have Muslims, so have Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. People are people are people, and some people tend to do really crappy things to other people irrespective of what religion or non-religion they claim to believe in


I agree.


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26 Aug 2008, 10:59 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Turning away from God, ie. Atheism, is pretty bad. You go to Hell for it.


Bollix


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Orwell
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26 Aug 2008, 11:02 pm

Sand wrote:
There is no doubt that some religious organizations have done wonderful things and some have done horrible things. The important question is whether it is religion is the inspiration for the good works or whether the people in these organizations would have acted well whether or not they were religious. And if religious organizations have done horrible things, does that indicate something about the power of religion to divert people from acting badly?

Historical data is too sparse to do much statistical analysis of the problem. Stalin and Mao killed a lot of people, and they were atheist. The Crusaders killed a lot of people, and they were Christian. And then too many complicating factors (such as the ease of killing large numbers of people) make it even harder to approach this in an objective manner. Religious organizations do tend to be more involved in charity work than non-religious organizations, but there could be other factors at play. I've met atheists who were very kind, generous, and charitable, and I've met atheists who were complete selfish dicks. Same for Christians I've met. I won't rely on anecdotal evidence from myself to decide which is more prevalent.


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26 Aug 2008, 11:03 pm

Orwell wrote:
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The cartoon does not claim atheism to a completely innocent belief.

It certainly implies that.



to one reader. funny thing is when i initially read it, i thought it was making fun of the implied religious nature of many atheists. esp. the richard dawkins bit of it.


i think the bottom line is people need to quit killing people and trying to get involved in things that don't effect others.


********on both sides.



Last edited by skafather84 on 26 Aug 2008, 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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26 Aug 2008, 11:04 pm

This thread isn't about good or bad works of Theists, Agnostics, or Atheists.
It's about internet trolling.

I may get angry after so much verbal abuse and say things that I shouldn't, but I and my fellow Christians are not the ones doing most of the dishing of insults, attacks, and verbal abuse.



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26 Aug 2008, 11:04 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i think the bottom line is people need to quit killing people and trying to get involved in things that don't effect others.


********on both sides.

+1


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26 Aug 2008, 11:55 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
This thread isn't about good or bad works of Theists, Agnostics, or Atheists.
It's about internet trolling.

After 24 pages, the thread topic is irrelevant.


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27 Aug 2008, 12:08 am

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
This thread isn't about good or bad works of Theists, Agnostics, or Atheists.
It's about internet trolling.

After 24 pages, the thread topic is irrelevant.


Alright, then let it be about the risk of owning a parrot:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi_4L5TJSMM[/youtube]

That is my bird Pavalah.



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27 Aug 2008, 1:17 am

Orwell wrote:
Religious organizations do tend to be more involved in charity work than non-religious organizations...


I challenge you to support that with data. I think that the vast majority of non-profit NGOs are secular in nature.


^^^
reminds me of the plot of sci-fi movies where some giant alien menace comes and threatens the world, leading to the unification of the hitherto warring factions.



skafather84
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27 Aug 2008, 1:37 am

one of my favorites is an anarchist organization called food not bombs.



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27 Aug 2008, 1:59 am

chever wrote:
Image

I like that cartoon, it makes me side with the atheists :twisted:


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