why are feminist obsessed with Nice guys(TM)

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Lady, get this through your skull: I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy smarter than you people.

(with the exception of one person, who certainly knows who I'm refering to).

The quote "The truth is incorrect" is only worthy of being a quote because it's an amusing paradox. It's obvious to anyone with a working brain that the truth cannot be incorrect. So what the hell is the quote saying then? The quote is using the word "incorrect" in the sense of "politically incorrect". And it's an interesting way to sum up the atitute towards the things that, although they are true, get denied _ or swept under the rug _ because they are politically correct. Was it that hard? It shouldn't be hard, especialy when you have the explanation next to it!

The FACT that he is denying is the FACT we've been discussing from the first page, that he didn't even bother to read (or has misteriously disapeared from his memory), namely, in case your memory was erased, that feminists deny the fact of the existence of the friendzone. And then he says that I don't point out the fact. The whole thread revolves around this thing.

The only alternative explanation is a collective trolling, but that's too paranoid for my taste. So my first sentence is absolutely correct.

I've argued with reasoning; with science; I've made my point from numerous perspectives; I've posted a video of a demonstration of collective supressed racism; I posted a video of a guy turning an angry woman like all of you into a horny giggling woman _ because he knows how you work. You don't understand neither of the points? Or are they "incorrect"? That's too bad.

Lady, get this through your skull: I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy smarter than you people.

The quote "The truth is incorrect" is only worthy of being a quote because it's an amusing paradox. It's obvious to anyone with a working brain that the truth cannot be incorrect. So what the hell is the quote saying then? The quote is using the word "incorrect" in the sense of "politically incorrect". And it's an interesting way to sum up the atitute towards the things that, although they are true, get denied _ or swept under the rug _ because they are politically correct. Was it that hard? It shouldn't be hard, especialy when you have the explanation next to it!

The FACT that he is denying is the FACT we've been discussing from the first page, that he didn't even bother to read (or has misteriously disapeared from his memory), namely, in case your memory was erased, that feminists deny the fact of the existence of the friendzone. And then he says that I don't point out the fact. The whole thread revolves around this thing.

I've argued with reasoning.

indeed--there seems to be a serious emotional investment in being right, rather than understanding the truth. people can't get out of their own way to see the reality of a situation.

*edit to include: Why can't people understand that human sexuality is not black and white? Men are not one way and women another. We are more than the walking sums of various biological impulses dictated by chromosomes, and to suggest that's all we are is reductive to the point of rendering one's argument ridiculous and irrelevant. i know that black-and-white thinking can be a problem with people on the spectrum (i have struggled with it at times, myself)--but come on!

Jeezy creezy.

this is a little off-topic, but: is this a welsh thing or are you an eddie izzard fan? i only ask because i love his comedy, and he uses that phrase in one of his shows.

sorry for the random tangent.

Why thank you.

Now, was the tenner in UK pounds or Canadian dollars?

Sure, and I'm not a rapist. I refuse to sleep with girls who are passive or even tipsy because (a) I don't enjoy it, and (b) I want more than momentary consent. I want the satisfaction of knowing that they're attracted to me. I work hard. I train hard.

So you want a pat on the back for not being a rapist? Maybe a 2nd. one for working hard? O.K. "pat, pat". there ya go!

In fact, even when I was a "testosterone-soaked" teen and early 20-something, I met that standard. You would not be able to find one single exception.

Since I don't know you, I probably couldn;t...

I'll have to look through your posts, but I haven't seen any woman stand up for "nice guys" when the topic of rape accusations ("one in three") came up recently.

So if the topic is rape, do you want me to say, "Kudos to those who don't rape?" The stat speaks for it's self . Not all men are rapists. We don't spend a lot of time thanking people for not raping, or not robbing banks. Do you think we should thank people for behaving in a normal fashion?

[Edit: actually, one admirable girl was supportive of the overall post, but not Re: that specific point.] People like sonofghandi and my father reliably chime in for fairness for girls. If you want me to specifically except "nice girls", then you need to stick up for boys and men at least as often. (And not as a vehicle for criticizing patriarchy, as starvingartist recently did with custody.)

I'm sorry, but if you want me to support patriarchy, you have asked the wrong person. All those run away daddies out there. Not supporting their kids, too busy having a good time to care about them.
There are a lot of dads who would like to spend time with children & are prevented from doing so. My late husband was divorced & the only time he got to see his 2 kids was when it was 'inconvenient' for his ex wife to have them around.
My own father could have walked past me on the street & neither of us would have recognized each other for most of my life. I did spend a few hours with him as an adult @ family functions, & I"M SO GRATEFUL TO MY MOTHER FOR LEAVING HIM! He abused alcohol, he abused her both physically & mentally, & I could see how he just made both of us feel so Insignificant & like Nothings when we were around him even briefly. He was good at that!
So, I've seen it from both sides


I don't see sonofghandi or my dad saying "Yes that's bad for women [and this is why you should support some men's issue.]"

My post was meant to be fair to boys who don't stick up for themselves enough right now.

[b][b] I don't really see what any of your post has to do with my post. Are most of the gadgets in the world created with women in mind? Not usually. Except for high end fashion, most pricey 'stuff' is for the male market. Men still have the most disposable income, so it makes sense.
Have I even asked for expensive things from men? NEVER! Have I ever gotten expensive things from men? NEVER! Would I return them if that happened? YES!! I asked my husband to return my wedding ring because I thought that he had spent too much money on it.
As for sticking up for men.... I would if they already didn't have so many apologists & availers. They don't need me. [/b][/b]

You might be right if you thought that women have to justify their positions more strenuously, but boys have to justify themselves. Feminists get mad about having their work picked apart. How would they like it if they were picked apart?

You keep using the term 'boys"? Are you referring to males under 16 ot 18? Boys are boys & men are men. The younger ones have an excuse for being ignorant.
Feminists are picked apart on a daily basis, & not even on political matters. What planet are you on? (Planet "Male" no doubt!)

There's nothing fair about the gender "debate". I'm just trying to even things up. A girl in my state could get $20,000 in cash subsidy for her women's studies major (+loan subsidy). I couldn't give boys $20,000 worth of talking points and four years to hone them if I wanted to. I am at least going to give them that one. No, I'm not going to let you shoot it down.

Well shouldn't you be taking that up with your State, not me? I'm not a U.S. citizen so I doubt I'd have any influence, even if I were male, or a feminist assisting your argument.

This is what guys get on this very site when we point out that an accusation doesn't fit our own experience one teeny bit:

That's fine, but what if the experience fits what others have experienced? Should it not get mentioned? I had a rape attempt made on me when I was 3 months pregnant, by a crazy drunk neighbour. He was angry that my husband & I actively prevented him from beating the hell out of his wife, & terrorizing his young daughter nearly every weekend for a decade! He did not attempt to assault my husband, because my husband was a Lot Bigger than me. He thought that I was small enough to handle. He was wrong.



That's a really nice way to talk to someone whose last surviving grandfather was robbed and abused in his final years by his own wife and kids because the aforementioned programming made him vulnerable. Wonder why I'm wary?
I'M GONNA PUT THIS IN CAPS BECAUSE I"M YELLING! I HAVE NO EXPERIENCES TO DEAL WITH OR COMMENT ON EXCEPT MY OWN! WHY DO YOU EXPECT ME TO COMMENT ON SOME ONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCES!? I WASN'T THERE! I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW, GO ASK THE PERSON WHO POSTED THAT, NOT ME! !

[Edit:] It wasn't just 'any guy' that they did that to (from the same post):

see above comment ^^^



That is very admirable! He was clearly an intelligent man, who was before his time!


How did he deserve to be treated badly by women? [Endedit]

No, I don't necessarily run with a different crowd. You sound a lot like my mother. They would never admit that they robbed him. In their telling, he was just "confused" (because he caught them lying to him) and needed "help" (getting rid of all that burdensome cash). They even rationalized it by saying that it made "financial sense" to sell a property (that wasn't theirs).

LOOK BUDDY, I don;'t know or care what your issues are with Your mother. I am not her. Here is my quote:
" Maybe you run with a different crowd, but I don't expect the world, or a man to provide me with the latest gadgetry. I'm not into gadgets, Prada footwear, or $500.00 purses. (I don't carry a purse. & my shoes & boots fit fine even if they were bought on sale @ the end of the season.
[b]
I do not expect a man to provide me with things, expensive or not! Why would I? My husband died over 9 years ago. Should I beg in the street as some widows do in the United Arab Emerates?
Should I try to "hook a man", because I'm too feeble to do things for myself? That would be the ultimate form of prostitution. Marrying a man for 'stuff', not because you cared about him.
I'm just saying I don't know of any women personally that have benefited in an unrealistic way from men. Not only do I not know any gold diggers, I don't know any men with gold to dig. See! We obviously travel in different circles.

Lots of Saudi men think that they're perfectly fine husbands. Their wives even agree with them:

And a lot of Saudi men & women are in living in Canada, & glad to be away from Saudi Arabia, Sharia Law etc.

http://saudiwoman.me/2009/09/03/my-guar ... st-for-me/

It's telling that, just like these Saudis wives, manginas are often affluent. They don't need to be treated fairly because life is good anyway. I'm affluent, but I also have a speck of self-respect.


I'm poor & I also have a lot of self respect! I wouldn't trade my life for any of these women's "existences".

What I said may still have been unfair to you. If so, I'm sorry for that. I'd do it again, though. Because this isn't civil society anymore. This is a gender war. I hate to cause collateral damage, because I was collateral damage for much of my life, so I at least know how it hurts.

This is not a gender war. This is a quest for equality! If you chose to think of it as a 'war' then I choose to think of your attitude as an affluent, entitled product, of a substandard, out dated dogma factory.
If there was strife in your life due to gender equality, Join The Club! So is everyone's life affected.

It's also not completely un-targeted. I picked an accusation that someone like you (assuming that you've told the truth) can easily defend against, just as I can defend against a lot of feminist ones. You also have more defenders in society right now than I do.

This is not a gender war. This is a quest for equality!

If you chose to think of it as a 'war' then I choose to think of your attitude as an affluent, entitled product, of a substandard, out dated dogma factory.

So you want a pat on the back for not being a rapist? Maybe a 2nd. one for working hard? O.K. "pat, pat". there ya go!

I don't really see what any of your post has to do with my post. Are most of the gadgets in the world created with women in mind? Not usually. Except for high end fashion, most pricey 'stuff' is for the male market. Men still have the most disposable income, so it makes sense.

Well shouldn't you be taking that up with your State, not me? I'm not a U.S. citizen so I doubt I'd have any influence, even if I were male, or a feminist assisting your argument.

Not only do I not know any gold diggers, I don't know any men with gold to dig.

"Equality" for spoiled, rich American girls.

It matters as far as this conversation goes, and they are. See, it's quite simple. Why do some people, including a lot of feminists, take a disliking to Nice Guys? It's because Nice Guys are jerks.



(Ah, you believe in that alpha/omega stuff. That explains something.)

And? What does it matter? Non-rhetorically, sincerely, what does it matter to you? And what do you think feminists should do about it? Do you think feminists should care about men who are lonely and struggling, should take up their fight? Do you think it's because of feminism that some men are lonely and struggling? Do you think feminists all have the hots for 'alpha males', and such couples mock those of 'low status' as often as possible?

I would guess one reason some Nice Guys may be 'lonely and struggling' is because they are jerks.

Seeing as anything you have to say on the matter is a variation on 'but it's not faaaaiiirrrr!', I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that, actually, you want to know why feminists don't like - indeed, have an 'obsessive hatred' towards - you.

"Equality" for spoiled, rich American girls. You say that you're not in the US; what do you know about this? Why did you even reply to my earlier post?

I am Canadian. I replied because you pretty much attacked my post. I am neither 'rich nor spoiled' Can you say the same about yourself?



I was cleaning out lathes in a machine shop when I was 12. I was almost stabbed when I was 7, and only got away by fighting the guy off. My mother was a closet sadist who took her anger out on her kids because we couldn't fight back. That's common here. Unless you have some real sob stories, get off it.

No, you are truly King of Sob Stories! Maybe your mother was a very frustrated woman who was fed up with living the life of a 'toy' person?



I didn't ask for your support, don't want it, and doubt that you have anything real to give.

[i] I doubt that you have any relevant opinions, apart for hating your mother. No I have no support for your opinions.[/i]



??????? Women account for ~70% of US consumer spending.

Yes because We are the ones sent out to the store to get stuff, cuz some husbands are too busy watching Sports or playing on the computer. Groceries. washers, driers, refrigerators, kid's clothes, school supplies, birthday, Xmas, anniversary etc. presents & cards, etc. etc. For some reason we are looked on as 'experts' in these areas.



Every state in the US.

as i am what could be called a female semi-transvestite (i do makeup and hair but not women's clothes), he's a personal hero of mine. he describes himself as a male lesbian--my brother (who is gay) and i joke around about how i have more of a gay man's mentality than he does, which i guess makes me a female gay man?

love this bit....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf3WTUsQhpA&feature=player_detailpage&list=PLsIF1Xvnu7ld7iGP5wPKpn7zvCP2Qendq[/youtube]

i've had similar experiences with the canadian equivalent (late-night visits to convenience stores in bad neighbourhoods).