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The worst thing about religion

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greenblue
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19 Aug 2008, 7:08 pm

corroonb wrote:
Stating that I consider religious people insane is not an attack. I have clearly explained why I think this and elaborate with comparison from psychology. Faith is to me a socially acceptable delusion held by many people.

The thing is that faith is part of how we are as humans, we all have faith in something, whatever we believe in or whoever we believe in, we have some sort of faith to it, most of us have a certain belief system, whatever that is.


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corroonb
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19 Aug 2008, 7:09 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Orwell wrote:
corroonb wrote:
If time is linear, then you are correct about the big bang. However if time is non-linear in some sense, then there may have been other "times" before the Big Bang. These other times could have begun and ended with a Big Bang. The universe is expanding but will it always do so? If it contracts in on itself, will this create a new Big Bang and start the cycle again?

All of that is irrelevant. You still have yet to explain how the chain of causation could be infinite. It does not seem to make logical sense.

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I have no knowledge of cosmological physics and little to no knowledge of anything else.

Then the two of us are in the same boat.

So, we end up without an answer to the cosmological proof, other than the theistic one, despite the fact that all theists are insane??

BWA HA HA HA HA!! ! I *knew* the argument was arrogance and self-serving definitions more so than a legitimate failing of theists.

I think Quentin Smith is a metaphysician known for arguing that the big bang started itself though.


BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !



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19 Aug 2008, 7:11 pm

corroonb wrote:
Stating that I consider religious people insane is not an attack. I have clearly explained why I think this and elaborate with comparison from psychology. Faith is to me a socially acceptable delusion held by many people. These people are considered sane because in all other respects, there thoughts and behaviours are rational.

Yes, it really is. Are you ignorant of the connotation? Not only that, but few psychologists consider religion to be insane. So, it really IS an attack.

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Stating that I am a stupid bastard is pointless and irrelevant to the argument at hand. My intelligence and parentage are irrelevant. My ego is irrelevant. Only my thoughts have any relevence.

No, relevant to the fact that you are an annoying person. Not so much to logical content though.

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The nature of time is relevant. I don't consider an infinite regression of events to be illogical. Are not sub-atomic particles perpetually in motion? Do electrons stop orbiting the nucleus?

The nature of time is relevant, and an infinite regress is considered by a number of philosophers to be illogical, and I have even put forward a reason why it is illogical because then an infinite amount of time would have to pass to reach the present moment. The point on sub-atomic particles is not an answer.

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Surely the concept of infinity proves its existence?

Does the existence of i prove itself? What about negative numbers? Ever seen negative mass?
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Is infinite causation possible?

The argument is no.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:13 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
And what was before the big-bang? How can it come from nothing?

M-Thoery.


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19 Aug 2008, 7:15 pm

corroonb wrote:
BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

I don't think anybody has taken those arguments seriously. For example, space being infinite does not have an issue with time being infinite.

Time being non-linear does not change the fact that causation is linear, and thus you haven't dealt with the issue.

Self-renewing motion? You still have infinite causes and thus infinite time before an event. You still fail to make a working argument.

Yes, you deserve my laughter for putting an argument out so absolutely, and then having to resort to such tentative arguments to address the cosmological argument.



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 19 Aug 2008, 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Aug 2008, 7:16 pm

corroonb wrote:
Stating that I consider religious people insane is not an attack. I have clearly explained why I think this and elaborate with comparison from psychology. Faith is to me a socially acceptable delusion held by many people. These people are considered sane because in all other respects, there thoughts and behaviours are rational.

It is not necessarily an attack, but it is an inaccurate statement unless you redefine sanity from previously-held views of the term (which you did). The problem is that you are using an emotion-laden term rather than finding a clearer way to express your meaning. You are also claiming that a person's sanity is contingent on them holding to the same epistemology, perhaps even the same conclusions, as yourself. That would make you quite the narcissist.

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I don't consider an infinite regression of events to be illogical.

I do.

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Are not sub-atomic particles perpetually in motion? Do electrons stop orbiting the nucleus?

What relevance does that have to anything on this thread?

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Surely the concept of infinity proves its existence?

It's been argued that the concept of God proves His existence. I think it is possible to argue that the concept of something does not prove its existence. After all, the concept of faster-than-light travel does not prove its existence. By the reason you used above, it is impossible to assert anything's nonexistence, because by acknowledging it as a concept you have proven it to exist.

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Is infinite causation possible?

Not really, no. There is a tribe that believes the Earth is supported on the backs of turtles, each standing on top of another turtle beneath them. Someone asked a woman from this tribe what the bottom turtle was standing on, and she replied "Oh, you're very clever, but it's turtles all the way down." Hopefully that example will show you the absurdity of your claims about infinite regression.


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19 Aug 2008, 7:17 pm

greenblue wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
And what was before the big-bang? How can it come from nothing?

M-Thoery.

Hmm.... how does that work? I know it is based upon string-theory, which is highly theoretical, and that possibly cannot have any empirical justification.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:17 pm

Wondering, did the discussion become about cosmology and physics to support the existence or unexistence of God?


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19 Aug 2008, 7:19 pm

Again with the fallacious arguments from authority. For an anarchist you seem to have a strange regard for authorities.

It's irrelevant to the argument how you or anyone else feels about the word "insanity". I do not care about any "connotations" you choose to attach to the word.

Insanity is a state where the subject has beliefs or ideas which defy rational explanation. The belief that the dark is harmful is insane. The belief that I am stupid because I do not accept your arguments is insane. The belief in god is insane. It has no rational explanation so I consider it insane. Whether or not this insanity does any harm is debatable.

How is an infinite series of events irrational or illogical? I consider it to be logical.

I don't consider the idea of a "present" to be useful. If time is always in motion, then there is no "present". Or the present is perpetually in motion until time ends or the universe does.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:20 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

I don't think anybody has taken those arguments seriously.

I actually am confused. Those are the arguments corroonb has put forward earlier in this thread. In fact, he has asserted each of those statements explicitly. Has someone hacked his account to mock him, or is he just a very strange type of troll?


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19 Aug 2008, 7:21 pm

greenblue wrote:
Wondering, did the discussion become about cosmology and physics to support the existence or unexistence of God?

To support the existence, I did not think that our atheists would be very good at answering the cosmological argument for god, so I brought it forward because if they could not answer it well, then theism would be justifiable to hold to and thus they could not be so arrogant against theists.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:22 pm

greenblue wrote:
Wondering, did the discussion become about cosmology and physics to support the existence or unexistence of God?

Yes, but we are only debating the existence of God in order to determine whether religious belief appropriately qualifies as a delusion, thus making religious people insane.


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19 Aug 2008, 7:24 pm

Orwell wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

I don't think anybody has taken those arguments seriously.

I actually am confused. Those are the arguments corroonb has put forward earlier in this thread. In fact, he has asserted each of those statements explicitly. Has someone hacked his account to mock him, or is he just a very strange type of troll?



lol, so now anyone who passionately disagrees with religion is a troll? Lol, you guys have lost me too now. I'm done with this mind f**k thread.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:25 pm

greenblue wrote:
Wondering, did the discussion become about cosmology and physics to support the existence or unexistence of God?


dunno...i kinda thought the discussion of god pretty much ends where the religious texts can't back it up...i mean those are the sources of religious information. not to mention the lack of any updates...the gods always seem to send some big theatrical display for their updated rules with healers or levitation or walking on water. haven't had that in a while and the ones who try it today are normally proven as just two-bit conmen (as opposed to multi-trillionaire conmen in the catholic church).



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19 Aug 2008, 7:25 pm

Orwell wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

I don't think anybody has taken those arguments seriously.

I actually am confused. Those are the arguments corroonb has put forward earlier in this thread. In fact, he has asserted each of those statements explicitly. Has someone hacked his account to mock him, or is he just a very strange type of troll?


How is an infinite series of events irrational or illogical? I consider it to be logical.

I don't consider the idea of a "present" to be useful. If time is always in motion, then there is no "present". Or the present is perpetually in motion until time ends or the universe does.

:lol: @ the troll comment. Deal with the ideas, leave the insults and nonsense at the door, please.



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19 Aug 2008, 7:26 pm

benjimanbreeg wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

Space is infinite and time is non-linear?

Time is a perpetual system of self-renewing motion?

BWA HA HA HA HA!! !

I don't think anybody has taken those arguments seriously.

I actually am confused. Those are the arguments corroonb has put forward earlier in this thread. In fact, he has asserted each of those statements explicitly. Has someone hacked his account to mock him, or is he just a very strange type of troll?



lol, so now anyone who passionately disagrees with religion is a troll? Lol, you guys have lost me too now. I'm done with this mind f**k thread.

No, certainly not. Skafather's not a troll, and he's a devout atheist. Someone who mocks beliefs that they themselves have put forward does arouse suspicion, though.


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