why are feminist obsessed with Nice guys(TM)

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This deserves to be laughed at. There were a teeny number of hard-core feminists in the 70s who supported that. That's it. You have nothing. Not even 5% of the feminist vote.



You have no idea. I would love to see girls shipped off today. I'll sit on the draft board that does it.

If you and Laura Bush want to teach every Afghan girl to read while doing nothing for the pashtun boys molested by Bacha Baz*, then throw on your own ACUs, shoulder your own M4 and do your own fighting, killing, maiming, suffering and dying.

*http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php

Arabia sucks for everyone. (Seriously. Read the link.) And when Europe was that backward, we had castrati. Europe, Arabia and Asia had eunics. Life has not been easy for men. Grow up.

Last edited by NobodyKnows on 20 Mar 2014, 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

She could not possibly be as frustrated as you are.

I can respect that.

"Male privilege" only exists for certain men under certain circumstances.

I think we all need to unite to remove the suckitude of life for everybody.

I absolutely second that.

No. You are wrong.

First, not all 'low status men' are Nice Guys, and not all Nice Guys are 'low status men'.

In your alpha-omega way of looking at the world, I'd likely be considered a 'low status man'. I am not a Nice Guy. The Nice Guy is a particular phenomenon of a certain type of male - I would say it is heavily US-centric (certainly starting there), and mostly found within a certain political/social outlook. It seems to be related to the Game/alpha-omega silliness.

I'll grant you in some circles of feminism, 'low status men' are hated. This is because these particular, very small circles hate all men. They hate 'low status men' because they are men, not because they are 'low status'. The vast, vast majority of feminists do not hate men. And they certainly do not single out 'low status men' to be picked on. If a 'low status man' is being a sexist jerk, however, I see no reason a feminist should not take issue with him. Do you see?

(And we can turn that around. I've known a few women in my life who wouldn't consider themselves in any way feminist, yet who were quite capable of coming to the conclusion, after one sh***y experience too many, that 'all men are bastards'.)

Example: say I take a dislike to someone in my social circle. A brother of a friend, or something. He works as a bank cashier. He's a jerk. Sexist, homophobic, racist - all that unpleasant stuff. He says some s**t, and I pull him up on it, and he thinks I'm doing so just because he works in a bank - he's wrong. He does work in a bank, and I am arguing with him, but I would not be arguing with him just because he works in a bank. He may even go off on one, about how unfair it is the public hate anyone who works in a bank, how he's just a lowly cashier, etc. He would be wrong. I took against him because he's a jerk.

A lot of jerks do have girlfriends, yes. But a lot of them don't. And a lot of non-jerks have girlfriends. And a lot of them don't. What are you supposing to prove with that remark?

Are you confusing 'being disliked by feminists' with 'not having a girlfriend'?

I think dealing with you may have been a lot more frustrating for her. At least my family actually love each other. Sorry yours was hunkered down behind opposing battle lines. Maybe you would be a better person if they had not?

Re: Your comment about me not knowing any 'rich guys' . So? No, I'm not interested in being 'bought'. I'll leave that to places that buy & sell women into relationships.
It seems obvious that you are more comfortable dealing with gold diggers & h**kers than you are with dealing with honest women as actual 'Persons". Maybe that explains your frustration? You don't get the kind of authority that you want over people that have nothing to do with you?

You knock the 'spoiled rich American girls' & then you put me down for not being one of them? Yup! You don't seem to like either of these types of females. No matter what your culture says, you can;'t have it both ways, @ least Not Here.

All in a days work for us manginas.



Izzard was - is - remarkably brave, coming out as he did, and all the while not making it about the clothes when so many wanted to.

I remember when asked why he wears women's clothes, he responded that the interviewer wouldn't ask a woman in trousers why she was wearing men's clothes. Equal clothing rights.

Sexual/gender identity is fluid. It's unfortunate that some people on this board, who presumably have spent some of their life feeling at odds with the world (I mean - Wrong Planet!), of being told how people 'naturally' behave and finding that they don't fit that, of not understanding what society expects of them, and who finally come to see that their experience sits on a spectrum, should insist on such rigid gender specifications. Black and white thinking, as you said. I mean, I'm as given to it as any, so try and watch to keep myself from it. If ever there's a problem I can't resolve, it's usually because I'm stuck/insisting on seeing it in a particular black/white way.

I had a time in my late teens where I assumed I was transgender. Men did not make sense to me - I didn't know how to 'be' one. So, in a wrong but sort of logical/binary way, I assumed I must actually be transgender. That if I don't know how to be a man, it must be because I actually should be a woman. This was, of course, ridiculous. I've since read accounts of transgender experience - awful, sad stuff - and it was nothing like that. My problem was I didn't understand people, and didn't know how to be a person. Then I had the blindingly obvious epiphany that I was a person, and should start with that.

Ah, yes. The joys of a heavily barricaded small shop in the wee hours. "Hello, we're murderers. Uh, Twix please."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ_-iPAgazY[/youtube]

This just struck me:

There's a UK tv programme called Top Gear. It's based around cars, reviewing them and driving them and having adventures in them. In 2006, one of the presenters - Richard Hammond - drove a drag car for the show. It crashed, big time. He spent two weeks in a coma, though luckily recovered. When he could, he went back to the show, with a sexy new midlife crisis haircut.

A while later, I was listening to a radio comedy programme. One of those present remarked on Hammond, and how he found it unsettling that, having got right up in death's face, having truly contemplated his mortality in the moment and later on in a way few of us will, let alone get to come back from, having been in a coma and fought to get back to his life, Hammond's response was to get a sexy new midlife crisis haircut and return to presenting a tv car show - that it quite brings home the sheer futility and essential meaninglessness of existence.

I find it similarly unsettling that at least one of our world's great minds sees fit to spend some of his time arguing for the 'reality' of the 'friendzone' and demanding people find a particular comedian funny, simply not being able to believe it when they don't. But, I suppose us simple types can no more grasp your ways than my dog can understand a card trick I might try to show it, and we should be grateful that you deign to be amongst us.

My wife is feminist (as am I). I am a nice guy. I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't hate me. Your absolute view in the matter seems to have more basis in personal experience, I'm guessing? That means you are probably not actually a "nice guy," which seems fairly apparent after reading the condescending, judgmental, and flat out insulting manner in which you refer to women in general.

Maybe some projecting going on.Some men hate feminists,so they assume that all feminists hate them.

Na, I think what bill is referring too is the not so nice girls, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil ones perceptions of people.

More then once I have walked into a place (like a bar) and been told right off the bat by some women I haven't even noticed yet to not even think about it and not to bother them (to not take an interest in them), its vary insulting. also, I was working a couple jobs where they found out I was just dumped by a woman or now single, next thing I knew I was being accused of harassing them by just looking their way or some rott where before I didn't even notice they existed really. and more....

And countless times I have seen women cry harassment or just get mean or the like because of men they do not approve of hitting on them where otherwise if the men were handsome and something the women found attractive they are all nice and smiles and welcoming to the male, when he did nothing any more special then the last guy that got rejected other then being more attractive to the females. its almost like women are trying to clear out the so called riff-raff of males they don't approve of so they will only hope to get hit on by the ones they find acceptable. its like one mans come on is attempted rape or harassment while the other guys same come on brings nothing but happy and welcoming smiles.

To me, women like that, if you got with them, once the honeymoon was over they would become real mean and abusive to their males.

But this is what I think Billiscool, and others, is trying to refer too. many women use nice to catch the men they want to attract while being mean, even hateful, to those they find unattractive and want to keep away. only wanting to surround them selves with males they approve of not even giving the other guys a chance.

In many ways the Mr Nice guys (not TM) gets allot of this evil too.

@Nobodyknows:
You seem to have all this animosity toward only the "rich, spoiled Girls". You don't seem to have a problem with "rich, spoiled Boys"-?? Why is that?

If a herd of Paris Hilton clones are not beating on your bedroom door, maybe That's Your Problem! You are not living the American Dream as you perceive it. You are not getting what you Think you deserve? Katy Perry & Megan Fox have not returned your calls? Imagine That!!
If you are not comfortable in the culture that has graciously adopted you, you can always return to a place that is comfortable for you. ( I think in your case, this may involve a time machine & some wishful thinking.)

+

Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 21 Mar 2014, 11:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

Yep.



.....aaaaaaand? Should they not do that? Is it some terrible thing if they do? How much time do you spend talking to the women you find unacceptable?



Again, aaaaaaaaand? Shock as person looking to find a romantic partner (for however long a time) prefers to be with people they find attractive! - I mean, hold the front pages, right?

See, this is what I mean by a sense of entitlement. Do you suppose that any woman you approach is obliged to be interested in you? Are you similarly welcoming to everyone who approaches you? At what point would you draw a line?

How about the women trying to catch your eye who you don't even notice, as you've pre-dismissed them as 'unacceptable'?

Personally, I think a little courtesy can go a long way, and your description of some of the behaviour is certainly lacking there. That said, it's behaviour described by a grown man who seems to find it shocking that some women may not want to talk to him.



Then surely you should ask the same questions of men? Or do you consider your experience to stand in for that of all men?

And your full of SHIAT, The whole train of thought was about politeness and consideration, not entitlement, and if you want to talk entitlement, what entitles a woman to treat men the way they do? what? whats good for the goose is not good for the gander? and men ARE entitled to being able to try and take that shot at trying to find a mate of his own, or is it only women whom have that right?

Or tell me, is it only men whom seem to feel entitled to the women because he is the unemployed while women the employer?
No man is entitled to a job right? while women are entitled by default just because their that employer?

Well, the whole train of thought came across as you simply not understanding why some women won't talk to you. Fairly obviously, it's because they don't want to. Now, someone could be bribing or blackmailing them to behave this way, but it seems unlikely. Most probable is, they just don't want to. Nor - and please do note this - are they in any way obliged to.

I am not talking about entitlement, but a sense of entitlement. You - and others here, and yet more out there in the world - talk as though it is simply a given that women should do (and be) what you want.

Do you seriously want an answer as to what entitles a woman, out and about as she is and possibly looking for a romantic pick up, to not talk to a man she doesn't want to talk to? Seriously? As to how she informs you she doesn't want to talk to you, it could be anything from just she's plain mean to she's having a lousy day to she's spent the evening fending off hopeful men she has no interest in, and much else besides.

And are you going to ask the men here similar questions? Including yourself? Or is your experience and opinion still the stand in for that of all men?

Edit to respond to your edit:



What? You see being in a relationship with a woman as analogous to being employed by that woman?

Dude, you've got issues.