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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 9:48 pm

Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

About christians being persecuted, I just remember that Jehovah's Witnesses say they are persecuted, and that just because of the blood transfusion thing, which they think it's wrong. I've heard stories that there have been court orders when it comes to a minor to get blood transfusion in order to survive, yes, they are not happy about it.
Do you think they are really persecuted?


No. Blood transfusions are necessary, and they're in an obvious cult which shuns life-saving medical technology.


what about the amish ect who are reticent to the new ways of the world?

i love how quick you are to judge/condemn any other christians that have views which differ from yours

at least you hate equally.... everyone who is different from you


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 9:50 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Yes, Miss Uppity Teacher is on a higher plain... :roll:


just turnin the other cheek.... since you presented them to me earlier


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 9:53 pm

Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt 5:10-12).

Citing the Bible to people who believe it was written by men and not by any god, wouldn't do much help to your arguments.


Of course it does; it shows why I believe the things I'm saying!


see GB... he believes that since they copied it letter by letter....... that nothing ever changed

here's an honorary: :roll:

just for RT


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 9:56 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Another thing I CONSTANTLY give up for my Christianity is dating women who aren't Christian. I realize that's best for me (no doubt about it), but it REALLY limits my selection. In fact, girls just saying they're Christian isn't enough; I have to really see that they probably are totally serious about Christ before dating them, or else I'm testing the Lord's patience. Paul said Christians can't marry non-Christians.

So, loneliness is a Christian sacrifice.

Tough sh**. You chose that. I don't exactly have a long line of girls waiting to sleep with me either.


Well, you never leave your flat, might be one reason. Another might be your avatar, no offense. Find a nice history-loving girl.


i think ramstein is hawt! i'd do soph soley FOR her avatar... but i think the history would put me to sleep.... whih could be good or bad for her

and i doubt you know how hard she tries... or how she is recieved


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 10:00 pm

Ragtime wrote:
I like to live my life without having to be kicked into a corner every time someone asks my views on gays! But we don't all get what we want. Before I tell you all my views, I always prepare to be blasted with your rude anti-Christic intollerence, and it always comes through as expected. :P


as rude... intollerable... and illogicial as his chrisitian views are (not umbrella-ing that to ALL christians... )

he at least tries


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08 Aug 2007, 10:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Nope. Jehovah's Witnesses are notorious for being weak on knowledge of Scripture. And I'm not talking about interpretations -- they literally aren't aware of most Bible verses.


isnt this somehow on par with racism................ ?

and anytime someone directs a negative statment towards christians he has some demonination (eg-catholicism or w/e) to use as an example for representing the entirity of that blemish on god's face... and effectively purges his own conscience of them that way

i am glad you are not a statistician

wow


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08 Aug 2007, 10:13 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Yet virtually everyone on WP goes easy on the Koran, but hates the Bible. :roll: It's just such hypocrisy!


concede me two points here:

1) we dont exactly have a koran-man (~bible-man, such as yourself) here to argue the koran's points

2) i have disdain for all organized religions equally... just may not appear so due to reasons relating to 1)


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08 Aug 2007, 10:17 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Answer: Because they don't read the Bible. The literally do not open it up, and follow along with their eyes.

greenblue wrote:
what makes yours being more truthful than others?

Because I follow what the Bible says, and can prove it from the Bible. Whereas the Catholics just make it up as they go along. Notice how many times their official doctrines have changed over time? It's well over 50 times. So, which of those 50 is the truth? Whereas, the Bible has stayed the same throughout the entire life of the ever-changing "Catholic Church".
greenblue wrote:
I was adventist before and I could argue that my sect has the truth and no one else does because of the sabbath thing, and I could use the Bible to prove that.

No, you couldn't.[/quote]

excuse me... but who deemed you the sole interpretor of the bible? you are chuckin stones left and right

really a specticle to behold.


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08 Aug 2007, 10:20 pm

And blood will rain from the clouds, coloring everything a crimsony crimson, and butterflies will devour swimming pools across the world, and all grasshoppers will jump and tickle everyone in uncomfortable areas. So when the time comes, the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER will join with JESUS, BUDDHA, MOHAMMED, and probably SOME OTHER GUYS, and battle against the forces of not-goodness. Unfortunately the prophecy predicts that a boy named Willy will screw everything up by accidentally getting in the way of JESUS and JESUS will say "omg noob block..." as the forces of not-goodness escape to their base to capture the flag! The prophecy also predicts a flagrant system error and everyone will be forced to call upon the high and mighty STROOONG BAAAAAD and his friend The hCeat to fix the computer - but he will fail and instead break it even more so and that will be the end of multiplayer online gaming for EVERYONE LISTED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. But do not fear, as the spammer that spams everyone with spam will get caught spamming and will be sentenced to death by getting pummeled with millions of pebbles thrown by Mr. Rogers. - Book of LULZ 86:75-309



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08 Aug 2007, 10:23 pm

I'll tell you where I stand on this matter, gays are humans just like anyone else, and on this issue particularly I'd have to take the liberals point of view (although I question their methods of protesting for gay rights, a civil rights parade is not a place to run around the streets half naked, as this would not at all help their cause).
Generally I'm against the concept of marriage because it's an outdated tradition. However, gays should have the same rights as anyone else, it doesn't really matter if it's called a marriage or a civil union as long as they have the same rights.
But I find it repulsive that, with all our problems right now, bubba and wilfred are more concerned about the sex life of Hank and Bob than finding homes and jobs for the Hurricane Katrina victims or tax cuts for the poor/middle class.



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09 Aug 2007, 12:49 am

I also find it disturbing that these so called "Christian" organizations (or hate groups) - Focus on the Family, American Family Association, Family Research Institute, spend so much more of their time hating gay people than they do on other issues, that any sort of talk of charity work is virtually absent from their agenda.

Helping people is absent from their agenda, while hating people is not.



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09 Aug 2007, 1:11 am

Kilroy wrote:
even if there is a god Ragtime-I still wont worship him
he says I am evil
if thats so-eff him :P


Want help? I'll pin him down for you.



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09 Aug 2007, 1:12 am

greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
I was adventist before and I could argue that my sect has the truth and no one else does because of the sabbath thing, and I could use the Bible to prove that.

No, you couldn't.

Why not?


Because NOTHING could make raggy change his
faith. :P

Which is really why he can't convince anyone.
It takes some understanding of the other side
to prostylytize effectively.

Which is why the Jesuits are always getting
themselves in trouble.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:59 am

Sopho wrote:

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
What about a gay couple who only have oral sex or neither?

Women are better at sucking a penis than men are. Please don't ask me to go into the depths, as it were, of their silky mouths, and their natural subtle eroticism which so inflames us. Men suck more like they're playing professional sports, or working out, than like they're actually making sweet, sweet love to their partners.

And you would know this how exactly?


I remember you have discussed your homosexual urges before, Ragtime. Are you sure you're not in denial at the behest of your religion? You can't so easily get rid of natural urges like that.


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09 Aug 2007, 5:57 am

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

There.
After they choose.
I didn't choose to be gay. Neither did my friend who was bullied throughout school (even primary school) because of it and ended up depressed and suicidal.


Well, you do have a point there. When we choose Christ, we're told to "count the cost" (even though many skip that advice). You aren't responsible for the way you were born, so the persecution is more of an affliction for you than for me, in that sense. But in another sense, I have to struggle to hold onto my morality under fire, whereas you are guarunteed to be what you are, regardless -- you neither have to stand up, nor have to worry about giving up: you'll ALWAYS be this way. So, in that sense, you have more assurance than me, because I have to watch out that I don't fall away from God (sin) when the world pressures me to, whereas you have no "sin" (deviation from being how you were born) possible.

So, I have to conciously hold the line. You just have to stay alive, which should be rather easy.

It's not really as simple as that. I pretended for years that I was straight, and could easily have gone down the other route of continuing that for the rest of my life, marrying a man etc. So I could 'give up' if I wanted to, and go back to doing that. And just because I'm not religious doesn't mean I don't have any morals or sense of 'right' and 'wrong' to stick to.



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09 Aug 2007, 5:59 am

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

There.
After they choose.
I didn't choose to be gay. Neither did my friend who was bullied throughout school (even primary school) because of it and ended up depressed and suicidal.


I was depressed and suicidal several times in my life. Being gay doesn't give you any special qualifications or likelihood to be suicidal.

I'm not suggesting only gay people are suicidal or depressed ffs, I also know people who are depressed but are straight. I was simply pointing out that I knew someone who went through just as much s**t as you did, or more, for something he had no control over. At least you chose to live your life like this. I would have found it a lot easier if I had chosen to be gay tbh.