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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 9:34 am

slowmutant wrote:
Baptist


When I visited a Catholic Church last week, the reading material in the pew said that only Roman, Greek, and Russian could partake of communion. For members of churches (with a lower c) they had to get special permission. Do you think that is correct?

By the way, I've been described as a "Bapticostal", would that also be a form of Christian?



slowmutant
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28 Aug 2008, 9:37 am

Atheism can hardly be called a mystical, shamanic belief. Unless the word itself -"atheism"- no longer means what I think it means, which is unlikely. It's amazing how many atheists are actually divinity students just waiting to let fly with insider knowledge of the Christian faith. :roll:



monty
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28 Aug 2008, 9:40 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Baptist


When I visited a Catholic Church last week, the reading material in the pew said that only Roman, Greek, and Russian could partake of communion. For members of churches (with a lower c) they had to get special permission. Do you think that is correct?


Correct in the sense that it describes the policy of the church? Yes. Correct in the sense of embracing communion with all Christians? No.

It's part of a longstanding political dispute over the authority of the Church of Rome, and the Roman Church's sacerdotalism ... they have this idea that their priests control the sacraments and salvation, so you better submit to them. In the case of the Orthodox Churches, they have come to a detente, where each sorta-kinda recognizes the other as co-equal. But the Orthodox Churches allow communion to anyone who says they are baptized as a Christian, which is a better policy IMO.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:46 am

No, it isn't. People can start from any religious point and become agnostic or atheist.
--------
Really? show me a native buddhist who turned atheist.



slowmutant
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28 Aug 2008, 9:46 am

A similarl claim would be that vegetarianism is "just another form" of meat-eating.



monty
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28 Aug 2008, 9:46 am

slowmutant wrote:
Atheism can hardly be called a mystical, shamanic belief. Unless the word itself -"atheism"- no longer means what I think it means, which is unlikely. It's amazing how many atheists are actually divinity students just waiting to let fly with insider knowledge of the Christian faith. :roll:


That person isn't advocating for atheism - they see atheism as a reaction to the oppression of Christianity. That person is advocating mystic shamanism. Consider this:

Quote:
Atheism is by definition a dogma which can only be held by virtue of not being able to access altered states of consciousness or real spiritual experiences. Such a condition is not the natural human condition...

The comedy of this situation is that quantum mechanics has now found god and named it quantum information. Every
assertion of the shamanic paradigm can now be explained rationally using the quantum paradigm.


Clearly, that person thinks there are mystic states which mainstream religion is trying to block, and that blocking them leads to frustration and rebellion against religion (ie, atheism). I don't agree, but I think that is what they are saying.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:48 am

atholicism, Baptist, Coptic, these are branches of Christainity. Atheism is NOT just a form of Christianity; I don't know how you came up with that one. Being a Christian myself, I can tell you this with authority. This is some ill-conceived attempt at gaining sympathy for the atheist cause and it doesn't amuse. Wish I knew where all this is going.
----------
sympathy? Not at all. Atheism is just a weak minded form of satanism; christianity inverted;
the worship of the material world.

Atheism is garbage. Its simply the result of being disconnected from spiritual reality by the christian paradigm, and then
rebelling against it.

it is in fact a christian denomination via any rational taxonomy.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:50 am

don't think so - that person is advocating some type of mystical shamanistic beliefs, not atheism. I think that the most likely explanations are: 1) disorganized, illogical thinking, or 2) trolling
-----------
interesting explanations, none of which are true. I am an eclectic world religions scholar and a scientist, and have integrated
dozens of different paradigms.

calling me a troll because i present an uncomfortable rational truth is a bit silly don't cha think?
:roll:



slowmutant
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28 Aug 2008, 9:54 am

prometheuspann wrote:
atholicism, Baptist, Coptic, these are branches of Christainity. Atheism is NOT just a form of Christianity; I don't know how you came up with that one. Being a Christian myself, I can tell you this with authority. This is some ill-conceived attempt at gaining sympathy for the atheist cause and it doesn't amuse. Wish I knew where all this is going.
----------
sympathy? Not at all. Atheism is just a weak minded form of satanism; christianity inverted;
the worship of the material world.

Atheism is garbage. Its simply the result of being disconnected from spiritual reality by the christian paradigm, and then
rebelling against it.

it is in fact a christian denomination via any rational taxonomy.


It's less a Christian denomination than it is a byproduct of Christianity. But I agree with you that atheism is a watered-down form of Satanism, worshipping the material world and such.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:54 am

Atheism can hardly be called a mystical, shamanic belief. Unless the word itself -"atheism"- no longer means what I think it means, which is unlikely. It's amazing how many atheists are actually divinity students just waiting to let fly with insider knowledge of the Christian faith.
------------

atheism is simply mystical disbelief. Which is logically equivalent.

blame god.

or the roman cathaars who stole the ideas from yeshua and convoluted them to make a fascist religion based on authority rather than truth.

Yeshua "the kingdom of heaven is within you."

Not the pope, not the bishop, not some earthly middle man.

It is impossible to be atheist unless you are so psychicly wounded that you can't experience spiritual reality.
To put it in science terms, if you can't obtain a waking theta condition, you have no business saying that there is no such thing as a spiritual universe; its your problem until you can obtain the waking theta condition.

Once you can obtain the waking theta condition, atheism and christianity are both silly and irrelevant.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:55 am

It's less a Christian denomination than it is a byproduct of Christianity. But I agree with you that atheism is a watered-down form of Satanism, worshipping the material world and such.
---------
:D :D :D :D

see, our primary differences were merely semantic.

All i had to do was put it in terms familiar to your paradigm.
8)



monty
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28 Aug 2008, 9:58 am

prometheuspann wrote:
Really? show me a native buddhist who turned atheist.


Many forms of Buddhism lack beliefs in God, the afterlife, and other doctrines considered essential if we are to call something a religion. I know many Buddhists who have no belief in God, and would call themselves atheist or agnostic. They practice 'psychological Buddhism' or 'philosophical Buddhism' but not religious Buddhism.

Consider this from the Dalai Lama:

Quote:
"Basically, religions may be divided into two groups. One group, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and some ancient Indian traditions, I call God religions. Their fundamental faith is in a Creator. The other group of religious tradition, including Jainism, Buddhism, I usually call godless religions. They do not believe in a Creator. But, of course, God is a sense of infinite love. The religions are not so different in this understanding. But God in the sense of Creator, something absolute, that is difficult to accept.


That quote is from a person in a Buddhist tradition that most Buddhists consider to be religious. Other traditions (Zen and Chan, in particular) reject doctrine and ritual altogether.



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 9:59 am

Clearly, that person thinks there are mystic states which mainstream religion is trying to block, and that blocking them leads to frustration and rebellion against religion (ie, atheism). I don't agree, but I think that is what they are saying.
-------
Theres no mystic states. Just four main brainwave conditions and sleeping and waking versions of them. Thats hard science
and can be proven via an electroesnephalogram. I'd link you to more info-
but this site has that LAME RULE about no links for 5 days.

look it up. brain waves. Four main kinds. Beta, Alpha, Delta and Theta.

:D



prometheuspann
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28 Aug 2008, 10:04 am

That quote is from a person in a Buddhist tradition that most Buddhists consider to be religious. Other traditions (Zen and Chan, in particular) reject doctrine and ritual altogether.
---------
yes, absolutely. the religion has fewer false pretenses and ideas.
It works to help its adherents obtain waking theta conditions- ie genuine "spiritual experiences".

The idea-ation of god is all fine and dandy, but its mostly useless.

theres no such thing as the modern christian version, and in any case, its not what yeshua taught.

Yeshua taught methods for entering altered states, charity, compassion, gender equality, and socialism.

His "God" was simply a social and cultural convention which he himself shot full of holes.

"The kingdom of heaven is within you."

Not at church, not via "god". Not by paying roman taxes.



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 10:15 am

Ata mevin Y'shua HaMesiach? Lo?

Really though, when someone just throws a lot of terms around, it doesn't sound right.

Also, you describe yourself as "autodidactic" which I myself am. College is really ridiculous if you think about how much it costs to take classes versus learn from books. Some of the topics I have studied are:

Theology:
-Baptist
-Pentecostal
-Messianic

Science:
-Chemistry, 1st year college equivalent.
-Physics, 1st year college equivalent.

Languages:
-English
-Spanish
-Latin
-Hebrew
-Linguistics in general

After 6th grade, I've basically been my own teacher.



burnse22
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28 Aug 2008, 10:28 am

slowmutant wrote:
prometheuspann wrote:
atholicism, Baptist, Coptic, these are branches of Christainity. Atheism is NOT just a form of Christianity; I don't know how you came up with that one. Being a Christian myself, I can tell you this with authority. This is some ill-conceived attempt at gaining sympathy for the atheist cause and it doesn't amuse. Wish I knew where all this is going.
----------
sympathy? Not at all. Atheism is just a weak minded form of satanism; christianity inverted;
the worship of the material world.

Atheism is garbage. Its simply the result of being disconnected from spiritual reality by the christian paradigm, and then
rebelling against it.

it is in fact a christian denomination via any rational taxonomy.


It's less a Christian denomination than it is a byproduct of Christianity. But I agree with you that atheism is a watered-down form of Satanism, worshipping the material world and such.


I don't worship the material world. I don't worship anything. That's the point.


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