Sweetleaf
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14 Jun 2012, 11:08 am
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
14 Jun 2012, 11:12 am
JWC wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
JWC wrote:
Oooor, may be I just misunderstood his explanation. Fact is, it's my money. I earned it. If I had sat at home and done nothing, the gov't would have less income to tax. But I don't, therefore the gov't takes more and more every year. I am being punished for my achievements with an ever-increasing tax burden.
Fact is, it never hurts you to earn an extra dollar. Period.
You are not being punished for anything, and so long as you persist in your martyr complex, you will continue the pointless excuse for a legislature that your country is currently cursed with.
By all means hold the government to account for how much you are taxed, and the results that government achieves with those taxes. But you have gone to the unsupportable position of questioning the legitimacy of government and taxation ab initio. The former is the action of a responsible citizen. The latter is the action of an irresponsible one.
How is opposition to taxation irresponsible? I would think that relying on govt programs to solve my problems for me would be much more irresponsible.
Because these government programs totally solve peoples problems
...It's a bit of help its not as though welfare actually fixes peoples problems it helps them while they are struggling so they can better be able to fix their problems. Or in the case of SSI it gives them something to live on even if they don't end up recovering from the disability preventing them from working.
Yeah if you relied on the government to fix your problems that would be irresponsible, taking advantage of programs there to help however is hardly having the government fix your problems it is getting help with financial problems. Since the only other alternative that's been suggested from the anti-tax side is just cut the welfare programs and just what ignore all the poverty, I'd agree opposition to taxation is irresponsible...unless of course you have a better idea of how to fund public services?
Last edited by Sweetleaf on 14 Jun 2012, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
14 Jun 2012, 11:13 am
Sweetleaf
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14 Jun 2012, 11:17 am
14 Jun 2012, 11:24 am
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
14 Jun 2012, 11:40 am
JWC wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well first of all you paying taxes is not solving anyone's personal problems so don't worry about that...some of it may go to financial help for people but a little financial help does not magically solve problems. Anyways you're a citizen, therefore you should act like one and contribute.
Also to put it bluntly if taxes are abolished and there is no social safety network we will have people starving and dying on the streets...and it will become a 3rd world country that's why you should be responsible. Also you seriously think the best way to react to problems is just ignore them, pretend they don't exist? damn I am glad you're not in charge of the government.
Also to put it bluntly if taxes are abolished and there is no social safety network we will have people starving and dying on the streets...and it will become a 3rd world country that's why you should be responsible. Also you seriously think the best way to react to problems is just ignore them, pretend they don't exist? damn I am glad you're not in charge of the government.
Being hungry is a problem, if someone else pays for your food; they have solved that problem for you. If financial help does not solve the problem, then why do entitlement programs need so much of my money? So, because I live geographically near you, I should be forced to feed you? In no way have I suggested problems should be ignored. Not relying on someone else to solve your problems for you is not the same as ignoring them. Solving them yourself is being responsible.
Oh yeah it is so horrible to help people with their problems
, what the hell is the point of having a society if everyone finds the idea of having a sense of community repulsive. Also I know you think people aren't even so much entitled to life, but I think there are many who would disagree I myself think people are entitled to the means to live.
But say they just got rid of all forms of welfare besides SSI? how would you solve the problem of people with disabilities that prevent them from working and the fact they need the means to live on as well? since chairity and family does not cover that issue adequately what would you suggest disabled people who would be on SSI do?
As for other forms of welfare again, what is your alternative to abolishing the social safety network? 'they will die' was someone elses response but obviously that's kind of an irresponsible policy.
Also your again directing this at the people who are already down as if we're the ones causing all the problems in your life......though you claim your real issue is with the government and taxes being too high. your tax money does not go directly to someones food funds...you pay into taxes some of that tax money goes to helping others. Don't worry it goes to lots of things that don't help people to.
Also not everyone can solve all their problems on their own...in a perfect world maybe, but its not a perfect world so we should have a society that reflects that......not one based on pseudo survival of the fittest rationale.
14 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh yeah it is so horrible to help people with their problems , what the hell is the point of having a society if everyone finds the idea of having a sense of community repulsive. Also I know you think people aren't even so much entitled to life, but I think there are many who would disagree I myself think people are entitled to the means to live.
It isn't horrible to help someone with their problems, but it is wrong to force someone to help them against their own will. Societies are formed for the benefit of all of it's members; including those of us who don't depend on others to pay the cost of supporting our lives. Entitlement to life doesn't mean entitled to force someone else to support that life when you can't. Forcing others to provide for your existence is slavery.
But say they just got rid of all forms of welfare besides SSI? how would you solve the problem of people with disabilities that prevent them from working and the fact they need the means to live on as well? since chairity and family does not cover that issue adequately what would you suggest disabled people who would be on SSI do?
Why should I be responsible for solving problems I did not create and have nothing to do with?
As for other forms of welfare again, what is your alternative to abolishing the social safety network? 'they will die' was someone elses response but obviously that's kind of an irresponsible policy.
Also your again directing this at the people who are already down as if we're the ones causing all the problems in your life......though you claim your real issue is with the government and taxes being too high.s.your tax money does not go directly to someones food funds..you pay into taxes some of that tax money goes to helping others. Don't worry it goes to lots of things that don't help people to.
Italicized statement is utter BS.
Also not everyone can solve all their problems on their own...in a perfect world maybe, but its not a perfect world so we should have a society that reflects that......not one based on pseudo survival of the fittest rationale.
, what the hell is the point of having a society if everyone finds the idea of having a sense of community repulsive. Also I know you think people aren't even so much entitled to life, but I think there are many who would disagree I myself think people are entitled to the means to live.It isn't horrible to help someone with their problems, but it is wrong to force someone to help them against their own will. Societies are formed for the benefit of all of it's members; including those of us who don't depend on others to pay the cost of supporting our lives. Entitlement to life doesn't mean entitled to force someone else to support that life when you can't. Forcing others to provide for your existence is slavery.
But say they just got rid of all forms of welfare besides SSI? how would you solve the problem of people with disabilities that prevent them from working and the fact they need the means to live on as well? since chairity and family does not cover that issue adequately what would you suggest disabled people who would be on SSI do?
Why should I be responsible for solving problems I did not create and have nothing to do with?
As for other forms of welfare again, what is your alternative to abolishing the social safety network? 'they will die' was someone elses response but obviously that's kind of an irresponsible policy.
Also your again directing this at the people who are already down as if we're the ones causing all the problems in your life......though you claim your real issue is with the government and taxes being too high.s.your tax money does not go directly to someones food funds..you pay into taxes some of that tax money goes to helping others. Don't worry it goes to lots of things that don't help people to.
Italicized statement is utter BS.
Also not everyone can solve all their problems on their own...in a perfect world maybe, but its not a perfect world so we should have a society that reflects that......not one based on pseudo survival of the fittest rationale.
Just because someone can't solve their own problems, it doesn't give the govt the right to force other citizens to solve them for them.
Sweetleaf
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Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
14 Jun 2012, 1:48 pm
JWC wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh yeah it is so horrible to help people with their problems , what the hell is the point of having a society if everyone finds the idea of having a sense of community repulsive. Also I know you think people aren't even so much entitled to life, but I think there are many who would disagree I myself think people are entitled to the means to live.
It isn't horrible to help someone with their problems, but it is wrong to force someone to help them against their own will. Societies are formed for the benefit of all of it's members; including those of us who don't depend on others to pay the cost of supporting our lives. Entitlement to life doesn't mean entitled to force someone else to support that life when you can't. Forcing others to provide for your existence is slavery.
But say they just got rid of all forms of welfare besides SSI? how would you solve the problem of people with disabilities that prevent them from working and the fact they need the means to live on as well? since chairity and family does not cover that issue adequately what would you suggest disabled people who would be on SSI do?
Why should I be responsible for solving problems I did not create and have nothing to do with?
As for other forms of welfare again, what is your alternative to abolishing the social safety network? 'they will die' was someone elses response but obviously that's kind of an irresponsible policy.
Also your again directing this at the people who are already down as if we're the ones causing all the problems in your life......though you claim your real issue is with the government and taxes being too high.s.your tax money does not go directly to someones food funds..you pay into taxes some of that tax money goes to helping others. Don't worry it goes to lots of things that don't help people to.
Italicized statement is utter BS.
Also not everyone can solve all their problems on their own...in a perfect world maybe, but its not a perfect world so we should have a society that reflects that......not one based on pseudo survival of the fittest rationale.
, what the hell is the point of having a society if everyone finds the idea of having a sense of community repulsive. Also I know you think people aren't even so much entitled to life, but I think there are many who would disagree I myself think people are entitled to the means to live.It isn't horrible to help someone with their problems, but it is wrong to force someone to help them against their own will. Societies are formed for the benefit of all of it's members; including those of us who don't depend on others to pay the cost of supporting our lives. Entitlement to life doesn't mean entitled to force someone else to support that life when you can't. Forcing others to provide for your existence is slavery.
But say they just got rid of all forms of welfare besides SSI? how would you solve the problem of people with disabilities that prevent them from working and the fact they need the means to live on as well? since chairity and family does not cover that issue adequately what would you suggest disabled people who would be on SSI do?
Why should I be responsible for solving problems I did not create and have nothing to do with?
As for other forms of welfare again, what is your alternative to abolishing the social safety network? 'they will die' was someone elses response but obviously that's kind of an irresponsible policy.
Also your again directing this at the people who are already down as if we're the ones causing all the problems in your life......though you claim your real issue is with the government and taxes being too high.s.your tax money does not go directly to someones food funds..you pay into taxes some of that tax money goes to helping others. Don't worry it goes to lots of things that don't help people to.
Italicized statement is utter BS.
Also not everyone can solve all their problems on their own...in a perfect world maybe, but its not a perfect world so we should have a society that reflects that......not one based on pseudo survival of the fittest rationale.
Just because someone can't solve their own problems, it doesn't give the govt the right to force other citizens to solve them for them.
Yes you've said...but what do you suggest as an effective alternative? still waiting for that. Also speak for yourself not all tax payers feel the way you do about taxes thus they are not all being forced. And how is it BS that specifically what you pay in taxes goes directly to feeding someone else? I didn't know you could track where the portion of tax money you pay in goes.
You're giving yourself a lot of credit don't you think, its as if you are personally responsible for solving everyones problems. Seriously if you have an issue with taxes being to high or if you would like them abolished there are a number of things you can do about it besides whine and complain about how unjust it is some of what you pay into taxes might go to helping someone.....or it might go to things taxes fund that don't help people. In which case the government should make better use of the tax money. You could petition, protest, run for office, vote and probably other things if you're really so fed up with taxation in general and/or that you feel you're being taxed to much.
If I am not mistaking you're just repeating the same questions that I and others have already answered and failing to acknowledge to answer any that have been asked of you...do you think you're not being clear?
And you said yourself societies exist for the benefit of all members...that includes the ones that benefit from the welfare programs. You do realise right? But so far your alternative is ' .......... ' so please explain how abolishing taxes and welfare will be for the benefit of 'all' citizens, I am curious to know.
14 Jun 2012, 2:00 pm
14 Jun 2012, 5:22 pm
Joker
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14 Jun 2012, 5:24 pm
Sweetleaf
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14 Jun 2012, 5:48 pm
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
14 Jun 2012, 5:49 pm
14 Jun 2012, 7:12 pm
Joker
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14 Jun 2012, 7:15 pm
14 Jun 2012, 7:18 pm
