The atheist crusades must stop!

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I still have to doubt that prometheuspann has taught himself to doctorate level in world religions, among others, when he apparently doesn't know what atheism is.
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I know perfectly well how it defines itself.

That does not logically mean that is also what IT IS.

Phenomeononologically, the question is, how does it arise; ie; cause and effect. How does the world end up with atheists.

Your answer is that its the other way around- the world has goofball religious nuts.
I understand your perspective perfectly well.

Unlike monty, whos demonstrating that hes got some depth and class, you are demonstrating that you are exactly the
kind of atheist I'm describing.

By virtue of your over- reactions, your need to diabolize me, insult me, and make fun of me, you demonstrate that you
are in fact attached to your pet paradigm. You are a dogmatic atheist. Think about that.

Wait, isn't spirituality just waking theta waves?
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more or less, correct.
to be more clear; REAL spirituality is connections which can happen when in a waking theta state.
Fake spirituality is a con game perpetrated by control freaks to get taxes from jews.
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Surely, you can persuade an atheist that theta-dominant brain waves exist??
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Some are persuadable and thus somewhat sane. Some are just as blockheaded as any christian fundie.

the difference, monty, between you and the other atheist is probably the majority of that spectrum.

Maybe he autodidacted himself beyond being educated directly to the role of nutty professor?
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oh no, i am far, far more eccentric than that.

"there is no consonance without dissonance as its counterpoint."

just out of curiosity, are you familiar with alan moore?
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No.
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he shares a lot of similar viewpoints (though with some minor semantic differences).
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all of my semantics are currently words used which i know others will relate to. I don't use these terms
if writing notes to myself.
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anyways, i think your opinion on shrooms and lsd are off and represent a kind of "yeah, well i do more work so my way is better" attitude...like saying that because you use a hand drill instead of a power drill that your way is better. i think it requires more maturity to gain something from the experience but that's the only way in which it's more pure to do it the other way(since your way requires maturity and focus rather than just getting there first and hoping you have the maturity an focus). and i'd advise against lsd because it normally has a ton of impurities and it makes the experience quite negative either during or after. shrooms are pretty much a go, though. it's johns hopkins approved!
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I'm glad you added this to the discussion.

i'm an atheist, by the way. i can account for the sensation of spirituality and certainly the introspection that comes along with a proper trip and what you should learn but no gods. at most i think the idea of singularity is very interesting. quantum entanglement of sorts. no entity of god like most describe...that's just a reflection of the ego and desperation.

alan moore is a writer but holds many similar spiritual views. check out the video on him sometime if you can (you can find it online for download). it's called "the mindscape of alan moore". he talks about his comics but more of the focus ends up being on his views of culture and spirituality and society...which are all fairly common themes in his books anyways.

well, this thread has gone off the deep end.

It's become a cross between an intellectual circle-jerk and a pissing contest, which is why I'm retreating from it quietly.

Many branches of Christanity disapprove of chemicals to alter consciousness, while they encourage prayer, meditation, fasting, denial, and other methods that might lead to something akin to what you seem to be advocating.
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of those, only fasting seems to have any effect that I have seen. Merely praying assumes that God as such is listening.
I don't think thats true, we are at best microscopic compared to that consciousness, and it is just as limited by the laws of the
universe as we are.
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The use of alcoholic beverages in Northern Europe predates Judeo-Christian influence. The mysteries of Eleusis, soma, and other psychonautic chemicals go back to the start of recorded history.
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some of them are somewhat useful and others are not. Alcohol can only lead to alpha states or delta states. Depending on intoxication level, one and then the other, and not what would be formally termed "waking".


Why not talk more about this waking theta?
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okay, But, maybe a new thread or two would be better than this one since thats a change in topic.
??
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That seems like it might be less argumentative and more useful. I will admit I am too beta, too dominated by the sympathetic nervous system, too much adrenaline. If theta is the key, how do we unlock it?
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Breifly to answer on this thread, you can't get there from here. You have to slowly move through levels. First you learn
to access waking alpha, then delta, and lastly theta. The skills you learn at each level are required to get to the next,
and the id can't be resolved at levels deeper than you can connect to.

So, starting in beta, the ego mind is more or less two or three brodmans brain areas immersed in the proximal stimulus
and fooled thereby into thinking thats the whole mind.

The first step is to learn to dissolve the ego and move towards waking alpha states. For the most part, modern "hypnosis"
tells us how to accomplish this. Ritual can be helpful in that the subconscious mind is somewhat child like and likes to "play"
as it goes. If you think of it that way "playing with your inner child" That can be pretty helpful.

Alpha states are sustained and perpetuated by an internal dialogue of images and pictures. The more one thinks in images and pictures, the closer to alpha states one gets. The problem with standard hypnosis models is that they backfire because
of having a "Hypnotizer." That can work for fairly deep alpha states, but not much deeper than that.

It should be noted also that each of the four brain waves are going all the time. The question of what state one is in is which type of brainwave is currently dominant. So as you move from beta towards alpha, alpha wave activity increases until a cusp point, and then theres a phase state change, and beta finally decreases. Brainwave entrainment and other such things can increase theta activity, but they cannot deliver a waking theta state because theres a feedback loop which prevents a waking theta state from ever arising unless cued by the mind itself.

So once you are exploring waking alpha conditions, what you find there is the same content you'd find in your dreams.
Issues, concerns, old repressed emotions and situations which confused the subconscious mind. In the case of most westerners, (this includes the animae/ animus relationship) Theres a certain amount of yin diabolization thats got to be overcome- ie suppression of the feminine side of self. Esp of course with males. All sorts of things bubble up and they are more or less all distractions. To get past them you have to deal with them and make peace with them and sort them.

Eventually, theres nothing left there, and you approach inner silence. By now you are much more familiar with the inside of your own mind, and theres a lot which can't be explained easily, esp with brevity. To move on quickly, you then work on obtaining inner silence, which brings you closer to waking delta. Delta brainwave conditions means no ego, no thought as we normally would think of it, and no attention on external senses. Paradoxically, once you have worked through some alpha issues, one gateway towards delta is to become completely present in the moment and completely present with the senses without thinking about them, but eventually, you have to turn inward to finally obtain that true inner silence.

What you arrive at then is the reptile shadow or id. And its very much the same process as with the mammalian shadow or id, but not in pictures as much as impressions, urges, feeling and so forth. So you have to again make peace with the reptile brain and more or less establish a two way connection where previously information flowed exclusively in only one direction. (From the reptile brain into the conscious mind, from conscious mind to the mammalian mind, and from the mammalian mind to the reptile brain.)

Last, but of course not least, waking theta states are sustained by essentially two different forms of internal dialogue.
The first is very accessible to us- music. But not music like most people think of it- much faster and more complicated-
in some senses the songs of the actual neural electricity. The other route which is stronger but harder for people to "get"
is to inload the senses which normally report only to the reptile brain to the ego mind via the imaginal stage. This includes
very intense perceptions about the inside of the body (For some people, nightmarishly so) and, perhaps more importantly for the shamanic perspective, about 3 and 1/2 feet worth of electromagnetic perception which is centered in the stomach.

This sense more or less allows one to experience reality as the "shamans" do. Its the origin of assorted systems like chakras and subtle anatomy. Its extremely detailed, but not really that reliable in terms of useful information. But the main point is that once you start to get that sensory information, that causes a brain circuit to activate and then you are in a self perpetuating theta state for as long as you can maintain your force of attention there.

And yet, if you want to "talk with god" thats still a distraction.
I'll stop there.
to be continued-