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Nades
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01 Sep 2022, 4:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
Being "aggressed" against every few minutes sounds outlandishly implausible. I think you just made that up.


Think about it. If you look male but dress female it would attract unwarranted attention in public.


People can dress in all manner of styles, many gender neutral and still be subject to stares and giggles.

The issue is that why are they "aggressive"? Calling their behaviour aggressive seems like it's extremely accusatory. Obviously, this word is intended to be accusatory and overblown with the intent to bully and control people for perhaps very minor ingressions.

And people wonder why there's a sizable amount of backlash against the whole concept of "woke".



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01 Sep 2022, 5:30 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Nades wrote:
You use "they" for a group of people as far as I'm concerned.


... and for a singular person of undetermined gender.

e.g. "If that person ever finishes work, they will go home."

It's more common than you realise to say "they" for an individual.


I like using “they” in instances like these. It’s much easier and less clunky than saying “he or she” and it doesn’t exclude a group of people.


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01 Sep 2022, 5:53 am

Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
The issue is that why are they "aggressive"? Calling their behaviour aggressive seems like it's extremely accusatory.Obviously, this word is intended to be accusatory and overblown with the intent to bully and control people for perhaps very minor ingressions.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/psychiatry/resear ... tal-health



Nades
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01 Sep 2022, 6:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
The issue is that why are they "aggressive"? Calling their behaviour aggressive seems like it's extremely accusatory.Obviously, this word is intended to be accusatory and overblown with the intent to bully and control people for perhaps very minor ingressions.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/psychiatry/resear ... tal-health


That explains nothing. I asked why are these people aggressive?



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01 Sep 2022, 7:16 am

League_Girl wrote:
Speaking of assuming bad intentions, when I lived in Montana, I worked at a hotel and another woman worked there and she was from Taiwan. We got along well, she spoke great English but sometimes I had difficulty understanding her if she didn't say words correctly.

Then one day she told our boss I said she didn't speak good English. This was a lie because this never happened. But my boss talked to me about it and I said I never said that. I go home and talk to my mom because I was very upset about it. My mom had me believe it was a misunderstanding and she may have mistranslated what I said. I go back to work and talk to my boss and she was like "it's possible it might have happened."

I move on thinking it was over. But it happens again but this time it was something else regarding her language. I decide to not ever talk to her again. Then she complains about me again weeks later and I think she is lying about me. I forget what her complaints were but I remember she just got mad at me one day for not understanding her direction saying something about her English not being good. It came out of nowhere. I simply couldn't learn some of her words fastce enough because there were certain things she couldn't say in English so I had difficulty understanding her so I would ask and she started to get mad because I was repeating her directions and asking what something is she is saying.

I do repeat directions I'm told and will repeat exact words I hear trying to understand it. But sadly some immigrants will think you're bring xenophobic because of your disability and it is difficult for me to understand different accents and if words are said different, I won't understand it so I will ask and repeat to try and understand so they can help me.

I'm sorry to hear that she was so unreasonable about this. In my experience, at least here in New York City, most immigrants don't take offense at sincere attempts to understand.

Unfortunately, in many parts of the U.S.A., immigrants frequently do get mocked and hassled for their accents.

My boyfriend is not an immigrant (he's a Mayflower descendant), but he has a speech impairment that is often mistaken for a foreign accent. He has also lived in quite a few places around the country. Everywhere he has lived except NYC, he has been hassled about his speech impairment, by people outright telling him to go back to wherever he came from, or by people just getting very impatient with him or outright refusing to talk to him.

I often have to ask him to repeat what he said, and he does NOT take offense at this. Occasionally he gets frustrated, but, overall, he appreciates my desire to understand what he says.

League_Girl wrote:
But eventually this employee quit because she didn't agree with something at work with our boss. I don't know if it was because of me.

I have an aspie friend with hearing loss so heavy accents are hard for him too. For me it might be auditory processing issues that make it difficult for me. I often ask "what?" When I don't understand.

Is there a way that you can get tested for auditory processing issues? If so, then at least you'll have a good excuse.

League_Girl wrote:
I am sure there are people who purposly don't understand or repeat their words to mock them because they think if you are going to be in our country, speak English right.

Alas, there are lots of people who do that here in the U.S.A.

Even worse, there are also people who "politely" pretend to understand when they really don't.

League_Girl wrote:
But I have pissed some immigrants off for not understanding them but when they actually started writing down words they couldn't say, I read it and understood so that showed I wasn't purposly being obtuse.

People say you get used to accents so it gets easier. Not for me. I still have troubles. I still can't understand a woman at my job despite knowing her for ten years. I still haven't figured her accent out and I think she gave up on me. I also shop at the local convenient store near my work and I still have difficulty understanding the Vietnamese guy sometimes but he kept talking to me and I eventually learned words he is saying in English I ask "what?" a lot less often. It takes patience and lot of people are not patient with me.

This probably varies by locale. In places where people do in fact get hassled a lot for their accents, they might be quick to jump to the conclusion that that's what's happening.


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01 Sep 2022, 11:41 am

Quote:
My boyfriend is not an immigrant (he's a Mayflower descendant), but he has a speech impairment that is often mistaken for a foreign accent. He has also lived in quite a few places around the country. Everywhere he has lived except NYC, he has been hassled about his speech impairment, by people outright telling him to go back to wherever he came from, or by people just getting very impatient with him or outright refusing to talk to him


I also have a speech impediment but people don't give me racist comments for it. They just ask me where I'm from. People assume I am from the east. As a kid I got made fun of how I talked and kids would ask me where I am from. I was a victim of xenophobia so it gives me a clue what kind of parents kids had. Kids will echo their parents beliefs and not really understand it.

Quote:
there a way that you can get tested for auditory processing issues? If so, then at least you'll have a good excuse


I got diagnosed with it as a kid way before ASD.

Quote:
Even worse, there are also people who "politely" pretend to understand when they really don't
.

Do they do this because they are afraid to offend and upset them and don't want to look racist? Context is important.


Quote:
This probably varies by locale. In places where people do in fact get hassled a lot for their accents, they might be quick to jump to the conclusion that that's what's happening


This was in Montana where we didn't have lot of immigrants and you almost never saw a black person either. We had lot of Natives though but most people were still white. Plus Montana is a red state and there are never different languages there to cater to immigrants like I see here in my area. Plus its very rural and rural areas tend to not cater to other languages like cities do. I don't know what my former Co worker's story was and why she would jump to bad conclusions when I had always talked to her about stuff. It just seems strange to make that error when I was always friendly towards her and everyone at work. Maybe she was insecured about her own English and me asking what or repeating her words to try and get clarification must have been the trigger and no one else did this at her work but me.


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01 Sep 2022, 11:58 am

League_Girl wrote:
[This was in Montana


I am interested in life in montana. I shall start a thread elsewhere on this site dedicated to asking questions about where each other lives



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01 Sep 2022, 12:27 pm



Typically, There Are Two Ways of Human Power:

1. Lifting Other Folks Up.

2. Bringing Other Folks Down.

Of Course, Folks Who Look and Act Different
And Find Themselves Also in A Scant Minority

Are Commonly Cannon Fodder For Folks Who Do

Number 2, to Bring Them Down Yet True Social Justice to The Rescue.

Typically More Liberal and Open Minded Folks Less Averse to Change and
The Differences in How Humans Look And Act in All the Beyond Rainbow Colors,
SHaDeS of Grey, and DarK Nights of the SoUL That May Last Years in BLacK Abyss

And All the
Tween of
The Human
Condition; Yes,

Typically 'These Folks'
Are More Concerned With
Social Justice When they 'See,' 'Hear,'
Feel and Sense "Number Two Folks"

Trying to Bring The Different And Minorities Down
To Scale Some Illusory Sense And Feel of Bringing Themselves

Up by Putting
Other Folks
Down More
Conservatively
Speaking IT's Easier to Do
This than Actually Lifting Other
Folks Up As That Takes More Effort in Kindness...

Yawn, oh the Forces of DarK and LiGHT And The Human
Condition; Some Folks Lift Others Up and Other Folks Bring

Other Folks Down.

September 1st, 2022 of
the Year of Whatever Lord

is the Date That A Billion Dollar
Amazon Series of the "Lord of the Rings" Returns;

It's Also the Release Date of A Sony PlayStation New
Game by the Same "Lord of the Rings" Name and Additionally,

September 1, 1978, 44 Years Ago is the Release Date of the
Great Styx Album "Pieces of Eight" That Includes the Famous
Song "Lords Of the Ring," A Play On Words Yet Just Another Archetypal

Human Condition, "Depth of The Story" that Relates The Never Ending

Push and Pull of the Forces of DarK And LiGHT iN LiFE That Makes What

Existence
Still Currently
Is of Course Surely

Not Limited to Human Nature;

The Yin and Yang And All that Jazz;
Art and Reason And Of Course Human

Beings With More Liberal Open Minds Who
Are Less Averse to Different And Change; Yes,

More Like Sails on a Boat to Explore New Lands;

As Opposed to the Anchor of Conservative that Enjoys
Same More And Less Change, Promoting Tradition over

Progressive
Newer Ways

of Doing Human Existence New Now...

Sadly, Media both online and offline is Driven By the
Propensity of Human Beings to Pay Attention to the
Negative Aspects of Life Associated With Fear, Anger, And Hate Most;

Focusing On Presenting Material That Presses These Negative Buttons of Dopamine and Adrenaline
the Most; Yes, Highly Addicted Some Folks Become to the Emotions of Fear, Anger, and Hate indeed

That Often

Lives to
Bring Other
Folks Down

in Illusory Efforts
to Raise What is Lower A Bit Higher in Life...

mY Human Super Power is Lifting Other Humans
Up By Simple Human Behavior of Experiencing SMiLes
Amongst A Metro Area of Over 500,000 Folks After Being

A Shut-in In 'Middle Earth' As Such in the DarK of Pain and
Numb iN A Dungeon For 66 Months; So How in the World Will A Hunch Back
of Notre Dame And a Phantom of the Opera for Real Do This in Modern Days

More Than Fiction
And Myth; the Answer
is Dance Free, Dance Free,
And Dance Free Some More
Until a First Step Makes 17,123
Miles in 9 Years Now All Around A Metro Area Free.

So What's My Super Power in Life that i Never Receive a Single Cent for

Now Instead of Being Shut-in, in my Bedroom For 66 Months; Yes Every Place

i Go Now i Am Recognized As the Dude who Brings Smiles for Free Wherever
He Goes in A Free Dance For No Other Reason than He Feels Like Experiencing Bliss...

Yawn,

The Smiles
Are Just Icing
on the Cake of
Autotelic Flow;

Yawn,

There Are Much Better
'Things' in Life Like Bliss to Do
Lifting Folks Up in SMiLes, Instead of Bringing

the Different Among us in Minorities Sadly Down...

It's A Lowest Level of the Pyramid of Humanity Indeed

If 'You' Really Wanna Be Strong Lift Someone Up today;

Perhaps,
Just a Smile
FOR A Stranger

Or Even A FRiEnD For Real...

Indeed, There Are Black Holes

And There Are Stellar Places to Live too;

Kindness is the Fountain of Youth and Yes
i Have Empirical Evidence to Prove What it does for real...

It Takes Effort; Every Holy Move And Every Sacred Word For Real...

Yet It'S A Whole

Lot Better than

Living in a BLacK Hole

As i've Done that too for 66 Months
And Surely Have A Perspective of Heaven

And Hell And The Tween of that too...

Hey, i Used to Be the Kid Who Didn't Speak Until 4.

Hey, i Used to Be the Kid Who the Local Big Church Folks
Spit on For Daring to Smile in A Town Where Boys Were
Threatened for Doing That; Taunted for Being Androgynous too.

Hey, i Used to Be the Kid Who Folks Said Was Too Weak to Deserve to Exist.

That's Not me Any More Be Cause i Decided to Lift Folks Up Even At the Bottom of 'the Pyramid' myself.

And Then i Got Strong; And Then i Got Stronger; And Now i Do Stuff Some Folks Don't Even Realize is Possible.

i Don't Believe i am
Particularly Special;

i've Just Always Tried A Little Harder and Never Give up...

i Didn't Come to this F iN Planet With a Cape; i Had to Stitch every F iN Thread

in Blood
Sweat

And Tears;

And if This REAL STORY Doesn't Inspire
"You;" YES, it Will iNSPiRE Someone Else
As i STill ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO LIFT SOMEONE UP NOW...

The Secret
of All mY Success;

Eternal Power Now;

Just A F iN SMiLe;
All the SMiLes For Real, still spreading...

And Yes, Yes, of Course it Helps to Start
The Whole Endeavor Financially Independent;
Hell Through Heaven to Give it All Away for Free..:)



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funeralxempire
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01 Sep 2022, 3:12 pm

Nades wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Nades wrote:
You use "they" for a group of people as far as I'm concerned.


... and for a singular person of undetermined gender.

e.g. "If that person ever finishes work, they will go home."

It's more common than you realise to say "they" for an individual.


And more often than not an anonymous person of undetermined gender....... I'm on about calling an person who is already know as "They" which goes against every meaning in the word that I "eventually" learned.


You can learn another meaning, just like one does with many other words in their vocabulary throughout their life.


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01 Sep 2022, 4:41 pm

Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
The issue is that why are they "aggressive"? Calling their behaviour aggressive seems like it's extremely accusatory.Obviously, this word is intended to be accusatory and overblown with the intent to bully and control people for perhaps very minor ingressions.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/psychiatry/resear ... tal-health


That explains nothing. I asked why are these people aggressive?


Read the article. Passive aggression and microaggression is normal experience of most people who are " visibly different". I'm not asking you to change your behaviour toward somebody who is trans, but don't be surprised how they react when you misgender them in speech.



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01 Sep 2022, 5:02 pm

Quote:
Even worse, there are also people who "politely" pretend to understand when they really don't.


Ouch, but I do this. Honestly, I just get tired of asking people to repeat themselves a dozen times, it frustrates everyone, but that tends to be where my requests to repeat lead. People too often get louder but still don’t enunciate, so it doesn’t help me at all. I have both medical and inner ear damage now. Subtitles are my friend.


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Nades
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01 Sep 2022, 5:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Read the article. Passive aggression and microaggression is normal experience of most people who are " visibly different". I'm not asking you to change your behaviour toward somebody who is trans, but don't be surprised how they react when you misgender them in speech.


It's not an article. It's a link to take part in a survey that appears yet to be finished.

Again, you failed to answer where the aggression is in a "microaggression"



Nades
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01 Sep 2022, 5:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Nades wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Nades wrote:
You use "they" for a group of people as far as I'm concerned.


... and for a singular person of undetermined gender.

e.g. "If that person ever finishes work, they will go home."

It's more common than you realise to say "they" for an individual.


And more often than not an anonymous person of undetermined gender....... I'm on about calling an person who is already know as "They" which goes against every meaning in the word that I "eventually" learned.


You can learn another meaning, just like one does with many other words in their vocabulary throughout their life.


Who says the meaning needs to change? Since when do "many other words" change meaning within the lifespan of ones life? I'm 32 and I never had to change the meaning of a word. My father also hasn't.

Since when do core words especially like "They" change so quickly?

You see the problem is that every language has a whole bunch of core words. These are a very small number of words, often less than 200 that are use to flesh out 90% of sentences and "They" is included in these core words.

They take hundreds of years to change meaning......not a mere decade. You talk about a word like "They" as if it's a word like "Selfie". They're completely different and it irks a lot of people when they're expected to use such an important word differently and not only that, be judged negatively if they don't.

Lets take a look at your post. "You can learn another meaning, just like one does with many other words in their vocabulary throughout their life."

Can you see the problem in hijacking a core word? You yourself used a derivative of "They" twice in your post yet expect others to accept a new meaning of it? Insisting they do is just flat out imposing on them.

I smell BS in everything you said.



Last edited by Nades on 01 Sep 2022, 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Sep 2022, 5:33 pm

Having another meaning of the word “they” is a strange thing to get upset about. It’s blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Living languages are fluid. This change won’t (and hasn’t) lead to much confusion. I’ve never found it a problem. As with anything, context should make it abundantly clear which meaning of “they” is being utilized in a sentence. It’s a non-problem whether it’s a “core word” or not.

People might want to examine why they find this so irksome.


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Nades
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01 Sep 2022, 5:35 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Having another meaning of the word “they” is a strange thing to get upset about. It’s blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Living languages are fluid. This change won’t (and hasn’t) lead to much confusion. I’ve never found it a problem. As with anything, context should make it abundantly clear which meaning of “they” is being used in a sentence. It’s a non-problem.



I take it you're 500 years old and experienced this degree of fluid change then?



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01 Sep 2022, 5:39 pm

Nades wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Having another meaning of the word “they” is a strange thing to get upset about. It’s blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Living languages are fluid. This change won’t (and hasn’t) lead to much confusion. I’ve never found it a problem. As with anything, context should make it abundantly clear which meaning of “they” is being used in a sentence. It’s a non-problem.



I take it you're 500 years old and experienced this degree of fluid change then?


I studied English literature (from Chaucer to the present) and linguistics in college. That obviously doesn’t make me an expert, but it is something I’m interested in.


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