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President Donald Trump!

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trayder
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17 Sep 2015, 5:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Perkulator wrote:
Donald says vaccines cause autism. nydn.us/1YeiHhw


All the more reason why we on the spectrum should band together in opposition to him.


The further to the right countries shift the worse it gets for people with differences including those on the spectrum. I cannot understand autistics who are libertarians.



Kraichgauer
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17 Sep 2015, 5:21 am

trayder wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Perkulator wrote:
Donald says vaccines cause autism. nydn.us/1YeiHhw


All the more reason why we on the spectrum should band together in opposition to him.


The further to the right countries shift the worse it gets for people with differences including those on the spectrum. I cannot understand autistics who are libertarians.


Oh, but I'm sure we're about to get an earful from those who are.


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17 Sep 2015, 8:20 am

trayder wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Perkulator wrote:
Donald says vaccines cause autism. nydn.us/1YeiHhw


All the more reason why we on the spectrum should band together in opposition to him.


The further to the right countries shift the worse it gets for people with differences including those on the spectrum. I cannot understand autistics who are libertarians.


Trump is on the left though.

He wants to stop outsourcing jobs , and protectionism.
He wants high taxes on rich people.
He likes national health care.
He wants to let DC be a state (i.e., let Democrats pick up seats in the Senate).



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17 Sep 2015, 12:32 pm

Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.



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17 Sep 2015, 12:47 pm

Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


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17 Sep 2015, 2:15 pm

glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


If so, then why did Germany's Social Democrats suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Why did the socialists go to concentration camps? Why did the Nazis make a pact with Germany's military/industrial complex, and broke the unions on their behalf? Why did they court the right wing of German society?


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17 Sep 2015, 2:16 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
trayder wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Perkulator wrote:
Donald says vaccines cause autism. nydn.us/1YeiHhw


All the more reason why we on the spectrum should band together in opposition to him.


The further to the right countries shift the worse it gets for people with differences including those on the spectrum. I cannot understand autistics who are libertarians.


Trump is on the left though.

He wants to stop outsourcing jobs , and protectionism.
He wants high taxes on rich people.
He likes national health care.
He wants to let DC be a state (i.e., let Democrats pick up seats in the Senate).


And yet it's from the far right that Trump is getting his most fervent support.


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glebel
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17 Sep 2015, 2:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


If so, then why did Germany's Social Democrats suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Why did the socialists go to concentration camps? Why did the Nazis make a pact with Germany's military/industrial complex, and broke the unions on their behalf? Why did they court the right wing of German society?

Hitler cracked down on the other left wingers because they were his greatest competition. The Nazi 'Pact' with industry was a farce. He seized control of industry for his own nefarious purposes. He cracked down on the unions because he didn't want any disruptions in rearmament. Look at what he did to Fritz Thyssen and the steel industry. Because of Thyssen's seeing through Hitler's plans, under his leadership they refused to toe the Nazi line. So Hitler seized the whole industry and Thyssen spent the war in Switzerland so he wouldn't end up in a concentration camp. Our dear government is doing the same thing now, with ridiculous regulations and TARP handouts. This current Administration pressured Ford to accept funds which they neither needed nor wanted. Ford rightly said " Stick it". Another case of the 'progressives' stealing a move out of Hitler's playbook.


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17 Sep 2015, 2:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And yet it's from the far right that Trump is getting his most fervent support.

Paul Krugman said "Trump is right on economics".

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opini ... .html?_r=1



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17 Sep 2015, 2:59 pm

glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


If so, then why did Germany's Social Democrats suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Why did the socialists go to concentration camps? Why did the Nazis make a pact with Germany's military/industrial complex, and broke the unions on their behalf? Why did they court the right wing of German society?

Hitler cracked down on the other left wingers because they were his greatest competition. The Nazi 'Pact' with industry was a farce. He seized control of industry for his own nefarious purposes. He cracked down on the unions because he didn't want any disruptions in rearmament. Look at what he did to Fritz Thyssen and the steel industry. Because of Thyssen's seeing through Hitler's plans, under his leadership they refused to toe the Nazi line. So Hitler seized the whole industry and Thyssen spent the war in Switzerland so he wouldn't end up in a concentration camp. Our dear government is doing the same thing now, with ridiculous regulations and TARP handouts. This current Administration pressured Ford to accept funds which they neither needed nor wanted. Ford rightly said " Stick it". Another case of the 'progressives' stealing a move out of Hitler's playbook.


Trying to save the economy by stimulating a major automotive industry is hardly the same thing as seizing a company and threatening the CEO with imprisonment.
As for Hitler's pact with Germany's military/industrial complex being a farce - - plenty of those businessmen enjoyed their relationship with the Nazis, and got rich. More, they collaborated with Nazi war crimes, in that they used forced labor from concentration camps, who were very often worked to death, or had died of starvation. There were very few Oskar Schindlers among them. Those same businessmen only changed their tune after the Nazis lost the war.


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17 Sep 2015, 3:05 pm

They're not done yet.


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17 Sep 2015, 3:08 pm

glebel wrote:
They're not done yet.


I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I see the real threat coming from runaway, unregulated corporations, in a world where said corporations are considered people, and their money is regarded as speech.


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17 Sep 2015, 3:29 pm

I suppose that was my little point really, these types of megalomaniacs just use the left and use the right and any current popular trend to get what they want.
I think populist would be a better description.

A bit like Rupert Murdoch he has supported left leaning and right leaning governments just to get his hands on power these sides are trivial stepping stones to people like him, i suspect the same is true for trump.



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17 Sep 2015, 3:42 pm

glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


Socialism is basically about inclusive cooperation. However it is not unknown for demagogues to take some left ideas in their bid to appear tribally cooperative, yet still cater to capitalists interests and conduct campaigns of exclusion against those with differences from the majority as was the case with Hitler.

In any event it is not unusual for humans to hold two quite opposing ideas in their consciousness. For example, I am a full blown scientific socialist or Marxist and a damned good forex day trader. For me trading is not an exercise in probabilities as I trade price. I do not make money as an ego centric exercise for arrogant exclusionist reasons but because money enables me to give effect to my inclusionist socialist beliefs. I can reach out to others with my ideas.

So to suggest that a man is what he is by simplistic one sided observation misses the complex nature of human consciousness and especially those of us on the spectrum.

edit: Parliamentarianism or career politics breeds a certain self motivated and cynical politician in this age of globalising capital as we have seen over and over again, especially in the last decade or so as politicians repeatedly stick to the globalisation and deregulation libertarian script in defiance of their promises. Trump is no different and is basically a liar.



trayder
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17 Sep 2015, 4:02 pm

glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


If so, then why did Germany's Social Democrats suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Why did the socialists go to concentration camps? Why did the Nazis make a pact with Germany's military/industrial complex, and broke the unions on their behalf? Why did they court the right wing of German society?

Hitler cracked down on the other left wingers because they were his greatest competition. The Nazi 'Pact' with industry was a farce. He seized control of industry for his own nefarious purposes. He cracked down on the unions because he didn't want any disruptions in rearmament. Look at what he did to Fritz Thyssen and the steel industry. Because of Thyssen's seeing through Hitler's plans, under his leadership they refused to toe the Nazi line. So Hitler seized the whole industry and Thyssen spent the war in Switzerland so he wouldn't end up in a concentration camp. Our dear government is doing the same thing now, with ridiculous regulations and TARP handouts. This current Administration pressured Ford to accept funds which they neither needed nor wanted. Ford rightly said " Stick it". Another case of the 'progressives' stealing a move out of Hitler's playbook.


I would suggest a good understanding of social relations is necessary with you...an understanding that distinguishes global capitalists forces from regionalist capitalist forces (the latter which is something of an oxymoron), globalist capitalist forces from bourgeoisie socialist forces, (the latter again an oxymoron), and globalist capitalist forces from scientific socialism or scientific and inclusive modernism, the only two real constructs between conscious human social relations being tribal and excluding barbarism and rational inclusionism.

As it is your ideas are all over the place and completely confused.



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17 Sep 2015, 4:13 pm

trayder wrote:
glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Peejay wrote:
Sure, but with some types of `independent politician leaders like trump, the terms right or left doesn`t really do the job.

After all the Nationalist German Workers Party sounds pretty left leaning to me bit that was led by a certain
Herr Schiklgruber, who was voted in with very populist anti immigrant and bellicose policies.

But he was still a left winger. The 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. are all kissing cousins to the fascists, contrary to what propaganda they put out.


If so, then why did Germany's Social Democrats suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Why did the socialists go to concentration camps? Why did the Nazis make a pact with Germany's military/industrial complex, and broke the unions on their behalf? Why did they court the right wing of German society?

Hitler cracked down on the other left wingers because they were his greatest competition. The Nazi 'Pact' with industry was a farce. He seized control of industry for his own nefarious purposes. He cracked down on the unions because he didn't want any disruptions in rearmament. Look at what he did to Fritz Thyssen and the steel industry. Because of Thyssen's seeing through Hitler's plans, under his leadership they refused to toe the Nazi line. So Hitler seized the whole industry and Thyssen spent the war in Switzerland so he wouldn't end up in a concentration camp. Our dear government is doing the same thing now, with ridiculous regulations and TARP handouts. This current Administration pressured Ford to accept funds which they neither needed nor wanted. Ford rightly said " Stick it". Another case of the 'progressives' stealing a move out of Hitler's playbook.


I would suggest a good understanding of social relations is necessary with you...an understanding that distinguishes global capitalists forces from regionalist capitalist forces (the latter which is something of an oxymoron), globalist capitalist forces from bourgeoisie socialist forces, (the latter again an oxymoron), and globalist capitalist forces from scientific socialism or scientific and inclusive modernism, the only two real constructs between conscious human social relations being tribal and excluding barbarism and rational inclusionism.

As it is your ideas are all over the place and completely confused.

Actually, they are not. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't necessarily make you right, no more than me not agreeing with you necessarily makes you wrong. We obviously view things differently. That being said, throwing out little catch phrases from a profoundly flawed political model is hardly a convincing argument.


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