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NeantHumain
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15 Aug 2009, 2:08 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

The Holy Roman Empire was called such because Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne augustus on Christmas Day 800 in Rome. Before that the Frankish mayor of the palace Pippin the Short was given the title patrician of the Romans and later made king of the Franks after the last Merovingian king, Childeric III, was deposed.

The Holy Roman Empire contained the Kingdom of Germany but also the Kingdom of Italy, which originally included Rome (later to become part of the Papal Estates). Later emperors and popes would contest each other's temporal authority.



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15 Aug 2009, 2:19 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
Its understandable if you are short on knowledge of mental illness, but there is a particular mental illness(hypermania) that leaves the victim euphoric, self confident and strangely, is often utterly horrible to experience. Its said that its worse than depression by far.

Hypomania is usually considered a pleasant experience as long as the overall mood picture is euphoria and grandiosity. Hypomania alone is not a specific diagnosis in the DSM-IV-TR since prior or subsequent major depressive episodes are required for diagnosis of Bipolar II disorder and minor depressive symptoms are required for a diagnosis of cyclothymic disorder. The ICD-10 provides diagnostic categories for mania without experience of depressive symptomology, including hypomania (ICD-10 diagnostic code F30.0).

Hypomanic episodes can have superimposed subclinical depressive symptoms (mixed mood features), such as irritability, depressed mood, and anxiety, that can make the experience unpleasant; but hypomania is generally boosted self-confidence, boosted sociability, boosted energy level, and boosted sex drive without the more severe loss of self-control and impulsivity, flight of ideas and pressured speech, and psychotic features of a full-blown manic episode.



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15 Aug 2009, 2:33 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
The things you own end up owning you.


The original thing that owns most everyone is faith and belief.


Which is why I'm such a big fan of chaos magick. It sees faith and belief for what they are: tools of the psyche for one to use at their will provided the right meditation and practice.

Some people noticed early on how such things defined how people acted and they took advantage of it. The most famous being Constantine who formed such an empire around it that it still exists and wields influence today.


Are you referring to the Roman Catholic Church or the Greek Orthodox Church as "Constantine's Empire"? Or are you claiming he founded the Christian Faith? If you were referring to the Roman Empire, that was founded by Gaius Julius Caesar, and rescued at birth by Mark Anthony and Octavius. Constantine was responsible for the division of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires however, and thus the development of the Byzantine Empire which lasted for about a thousand years after the decline of the Western Empire. Also, the Byzantines were responsible for ceasing the advancement of the Islamic world into eastern Europe from the 700's to the 1400's when Byzantium fell to the Ottoman Turks.


Referring to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern day Catholic church, which appears to be a historical offshoot from that empire and a group that obviously still wields massive political and sociological power over people.


Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. :P


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15 Aug 2009, 2:44 pm

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
The things you own end up owning you.


The original thing that owns most everyone is faith and belief.


Which is why I'm such a big fan of chaos magick. It sees faith and belief for what they are: tools of the psyche for one to use at their will provided the right meditation and practice.

Some people noticed early on how such things defined how people acted and they took advantage of it. The most famous being Constantine who formed such an empire around it that it still exists and wields influence today.


Are you referring to the Roman Catholic Church or the Greek Orthodox Church as "Constantine's Empire"? Or are you claiming he founded the Christian Faith? If you were referring to the Roman Empire, that was founded by Gaius Julius Caesar, and rescued at birth by Mark Anthony and Octavius. Constantine was responsible for the division of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires however, and thus the development of the Byzantine Empire which lasted for about a thousand years after the decline of the Western Empire. Also, the Byzantines were responsible for ceasing the advancement of the Islamic world into eastern Europe from the 700's to the 1400's when Byzantium fell to the Ottoman Turks.


Referring to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern day Catholic church, which appears to be a historical offshoot from that empire and a group that obviously still wields massive political and sociological power over people.


Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. :P


nor an empire?
i think it fits empire to the letter, it was a mish-mashed SOUP of little kingdoms and princehoods and whatnot, under 1 authority.
that = empire, by definition :D


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Henriksson
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15 Aug 2009, 2:52 pm

ZEGH8578 wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
The things you own end up owning you.


The original thing that owns most everyone is faith and belief.


Which is why I'm such a big fan of chaos magick. It sees faith and belief for what they are: tools of the psyche for one to use at their will provided the right meditation and practice.

Some people noticed early on how such things defined how people acted and they took advantage of it. The most famous being Constantine who formed such an empire around it that it still exists and wields influence today.


Are you referring to the Roman Catholic Church or the Greek Orthodox Church as "Constantine's Empire"? Or are you claiming he founded the Christian Faith? If you were referring to the Roman Empire, that was founded by Gaius Julius Caesar, and rescued at birth by Mark Anthony and Octavius. Constantine was responsible for the division of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires however, and thus the development of the Byzantine Empire which lasted for about a thousand years after the decline of the Western Empire. Also, the Byzantines were responsible for ceasing the advancement of the Islamic world into eastern Europe from the 700's to the 1400's when Byzantium fell to the Ottoman Turks.


Referring to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern day Catholic church, which appears to be a historical offshoot from that empire and a group that obviously still wields massive political and sociological power over people.


Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. :P


nor an empire?
i think it fits empire to the letter, it was a mish-mashed SOUP of little kingdoms and princehoods and whatnot, under 1 authority.
that = empire, by definition :D

All right, if one uses a pretty loose definition of 'empire'. :)

Quote:
The term empire derives from the Latin imperium. Politically, an empire is a geographically extensive group of states and peoples (ethnic groups) united and ruled either by a monarch (emperor, empress) or an oligarchy. Geopolitically, the term empire has denoted very different, territorially-extreme states — at the strong end, the extensive Spanish Empire (16th c.) and the British Empire (19th c.), at the weak end, the Holy Roman Empire (8th c.–19th c.), in its Medieval and early-modern forms, and the Byzantine Empire (15th c.), that was a direct continuation of the Roman Empire, that, in its final century of existence, was more a city-state than a territorial empire.


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iamnotaparakeet
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15 Aug 2009, 9:11 pm

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
The things you own end up owning you.


The original thing that owns most everyone is faith and belief.


Which is why I'm such a big fan of chaos magick. It sees faith and belief for what they are: tools of the psyche for one to use at their will provided the right meditation and practice.

Some people noticed early on how such things defined how people acted and they took advantage of it. The most famous being Constantine who formed such an empire around it that it still exists and wields influence today.


Are you referring to the Roman Catholic Church or the Greek Orthodox Church as "Constantine's Empire"? Or are you claiming he founded the Christian Faith? If you were referring to the Roman Empire, that was founded by Gaius Julius Caesar, and rescued at birth by Mark Anthony and Octavius. Constantine was responsible for the division of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires however, and thus the development of the Byzantine Empire which lasted for about a thousand years after the decline of the Western Empire. Also, the Byzantines were responsible for ceasing the advancement of the Islamic world into eastern Europe from the 700's to the 1400's when Byzantium fell to the Ottoman Turks.


Referring to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern day Catholic church, which appears to be a historical offshoot from that empire and a group that obviously still wields massive political and sociological power over people.


Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. :P


I've read a similar quote in a history textbook... The "Holy Roman Empire" was a main reason for WWI, and about 30 years after they fell, then Hitler came along to louse things up again.



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15 Aug 2009, 9:44 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Its understandable if you are short on knowledge of mental illness, but there is a particular mental illness(hypermania) that leaves the victim euphoric, self confident and strangely, is often utterly horrible to experience. Its said that its worse than depression by far.

Hypomania is usually considered a pleasant experience as long as the overall mood picture is euphoria and grandiosity. Hypomania alone is not a specific diagnosis in the DSM-IV-TR since prior or subsequent major depressive episodes are required for diagnosis of Bipolar II disorder and minor depressive symptoms are required for a diagnosis of cyclothymic disorder. The ICD-10 provides diagnostic categories for mania without experience of depressive symptomology, including hypomania (ICD-10 diagnostic code F30.0).

Hypomanic episodes can have superimposed subclinical depressive symptoms (mixed mood features), such as irritability, depressed mood, and anxiety, that can make the experience unpleasant; but hypomania is generally boosted self-confidence, boosted sociability, boosted energy level, and boosted sex drive without the more severe loss of self-control and impulsivity, flight of ideas and pressured speech, and psychotic features of a full-blown manic episode.


Correct, but note that I said hyper and not hypo. Hyper is a full blown manic episode.

I'm no expert though: I am not bipolar. From what I understand and from what I saw of a client of mine, when it persists too long, it is indeed hellish. She was unable to sleep or relax. She foolishly refused treatment.


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NeantHumain
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16 Aug 2009, 12:51 am

Fuzzy wrote:
Correct, but note that I said hyper and not hypo. Hyper is a full blown manic episode.

I'm no expert though: I am not bipolar. From what I understand and from what I saw of a client of mine, when it persists too long, it is indeed hellish. She was unable to sleep or relax. She foolishly refused treatment.

I've never heard of hypermania before: just hypomania and mania. There's hyperactivity/hyperkinesis (ADHD symptom) and a hyperthymic temperament (pretty much a permanent state of hypomania—very similar to ADHD actually). I found a few examples on the Internet, but it mostly seems to be people's confusion from the word hypomania.



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16 Aug 2009, 1:42 am

NeantHumain wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Correct, but note that I said hyper and not hypo. Hyper is a full blown manic episode.

I'm no expert though: I am not bipolar. From what I understand and from what I saw of a client of mine, when it persists too long, it is indeed hellish. She was unable to sleep or relax. She foolishly refused treatment.

I've never heard of hypermania before: just hypomania and mania. There's hyperactivity/hyperkinesis (ADHD symptom) and a hyperthymic temperament (pretty much a permanent state of hypomania—very similar to ADHD actually). I found a few examples on the Internet, but it mostly seems to be people's confusion from the word hypomania.


I dont think its a definite diagnosable thing, but an extreme end of hypo. I know of one person that supposedly had it, and I posted a youtube video of him. So I didnt want to do it twice. As it touches on religion as well, I didnt want to tangle it up in this topic as it would veer the subject badly. If you cannot find it, I can link you in a private message.


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16 Aug 2009, 10:17 am

The prefix hyper-, meaning "above" would make more sense than hypo-, which means "below".



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16 Aug 2009, 12:15 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
The prefix hyper-, meaning "above" would make more sense than hypo-, which means "below".

Hypomania refers to a mood episode that's below mania in severity. It's like minor depression, which is no longer a diagnostic category of its own (it's now under depressive disorder NOS).



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16 Aug 2009, 12:18 pm

Henriksson wrote:
The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. :P

That's Voltaire.



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16 Aug 2009, 12:27 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
I dont think its a definite diagnosable thing, but an extreme end of hypo. I know of one person that supposedly had it, and I posted a youtube video of him. So I didnt want to do it twice. As it touches on religion as well, I didnt want to tangle it up in this topic as it would veer the subject badly. If you cannot find it, I can link you in a private message.

I would think hypermania would refer to a very case of mania instead of a case of mania just a little more severe than hypomania. Manic episodes are the sort that require hospitalization, interruption to job/school/family life, or possibly incarceration. Hypomania is not that disruptive. Full-blown manic episodes themselves can run the gamut of severity from disruptive but fairly mild to severe manic episodes with psychotic features (hallucinations, delusions) that have wild, uncontrolled behavior, impulsive violence, ranting in the street, etc.



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16 Aug 2009, 2:10 pm

While the cultish leaders often display grandiose exaggerations of themselves, so did Jesus. He said he was the son of God. I don't know how much more grandiose it gets than that. On one hand I do believe that everyone contains the god particle so to speak. Jesus's followers do take it literally that he was the one and only son of God. So, let's stop cherry picking and start calling things by their real names. Was he schizophrenic or was he the real deal. If he was the real thing then who is to say that more people can't become like him?

I was mainly pointing to the idea that prophets, saints, shamans, high priests and oracles believe the voices in their heads and attribute them to messages from angels, demons, gods and so forth. Joan of Arc would be a schizophrenic today. However, her visions proved to be real so who is to say that the way she thought was good or crazy? If you heard voices that told you things it doesn't mean that you are narcissitic but it does mean that many psychiatrists would prescribe meds for this sort of brain abnormality. Visions are often called hallucinations but in the past they weren't so readily dismissed if in fact these visions proved to have some merit in the outer world. Same goes for auditory hallucinations. By this standard, all the Tibetan monks are schizophrenic because they dedicated their lives to listening to this inner world of voices, visions, and emotional states of ecstasy that are described as oneness with God.

As with everything, there are many roots to belief systems. Politics played a heavy hand in forming religions. Now, the new religion is scientism. Any belief system that causes one to feel smarter or better in any way has dangerous power.


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16 Aug 2009, 5:36 pm

Magnus wrote:
He said he was the son of God. I don't know how much more grandiose it gets than that.

My kitten destroys and then recreates the universe every Thursday.

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Now, the new religion is scientism.

You do realize you're using a computer, one of the evils of 'scientism', to type this, right?

Quote:
Any belief system that causes one to feel smarter or better in any way has dangerous power.

More like you have no understanding of it, more than that it conflicts with your own worldview, so you try to pull it down to the low level you are on yourself. It's not succeding, to say the least.


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NeantHumain
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16 Aug 2009, 7:22 pm

Magnus wrote:
Joan of Arc would be a schizophrenic today. However, her visions proved to be real so who is to say that the way she thought was good or crazy? If you heard voices that told you things it doesn't mean that you are narcissitic but it does mean that many psychiatrists would prescribe meds for this sort of brain abnormality.

I've heard epilepsy mentioned for Joan of Arc and Mohammed.

For Jesus, it's hard to separate what was written about him years later and removed by several degrees from the source (i.e., the New Testament) from the so-called historical Jesus. The man's teachings have been twisted every which way over the millennia.