Your attitude to Judaism and Christianity

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Cute little spin but I'm stopping this here. I was talking of society in general and then you try and turn it around into being about Muslims vs Jews. Keep on the topic or I'll cut you off again. This isn't about Muslims vs Jews...from what I've seen, a lot of them have troubles because they're raised up in such a superstitious, kind of mythic view of Judaism that it reminds me a lot of the KKK. They create a myth about the opposing group and pass those ideas on downward through family as fact.

And what you're doing as far as how you're illustrating them isn't much different than how aryan nation scum illustrates blacks' place in society here in America.

My original statement wasn't about how Muslim immigrants view Jews. Don't try and change it into such a statement.

Don't even try make this into a racial issue, Muslims are of all races, same as Christians, and to less extent Jews, Hindus and Buddhists. Race is not an issue here, religion is. I see a pattern and I'm not afraid of calling it.

You don't wish to look at immigrants? Then how about the way the Muslim world reacted in 2007/2008 when 12 drawings made them go bonkers in lots of countries, with violent demonstrations, death threats, flag burning and destruction of embassies? Nuts... Death threats over drawings... WTG!

I was raised in a non-believing Protestant Lutheran family. The only one in my family who was religious was my paternal grandmother. In my first 12 years I was atheist. So much in fact that I sometimes skipped the annual x-mas school service.
These and my Christening and the funerals of my maternal grandparents are the only times I’ve gone to church/chapel.

Then I beagn thinking about the meaning of life, God, and the whys and hows. I knew enough about Protestantism to know that it had no appeal for me. I found both divine services and classes uninteresting.

I became curious about both Catholism and Judaism and I began researching them both.
At the same time I really hated school, I was picked on (this was my last year in elementary school) and I wanted to be elsewhere in junior high, not be stuck with the same kids. I could take no more bullying. I also hated the lack of discipline. So I sent an application to St Sunniva, a Catholic combined elementary and junior high school, since I had heard it was more disciplined and calm. I was number 3 on their waiting list and wasn’t accepted. (Thankfully I ended up in a class in junior high where there was no one else from my old class. The others were from my parallell classes as well as from 2 other elementary schools. Since I wasn’t picked on there, I never sent a new application to St Sunniva.)

I continued researching Catholism and Judaism and got in touch with both milieus. I was invited to and visited both.
Then in good old autistic style I developed an obsession about Judaism and started attending services there weekly. (I was almost 13 ½ at that time.) I still don’t know if I actually believed in God or if it was just an obsession, but I sure wanted to. My parents weren’t happy about it but they respected it to some degree. I was happy going there for 3 years, then I began experiencing doubts, or maybe my obsession simply came to an end. Things concerning lack of equality and the nature of God bothered me. (Anyone read the Old Testament? What kind of omnipotent being viciously attacks a stone aged people?) I did feel fear of God, though.

Still I kept going steadily for another 3 years, every Saturday. Then more seldom. Now not at all for the last 7 years. Purely religious reasons. I was reluctant to let it go. I had never before had any wish to attend anything, and I liked it there. I liked the sensations (the beautiful synagogue, the smell of wood and old books, the beauty of Hebrew letters, the lovely melodies, the atmosphere.) I had gone there for some of my most important years of development and I had imagined that I would go there for the rest of my life. It was actually kind of hard to let go. I didn’t wanna lose that place.

Since the age of 19-20 I have believed in reincarnation. To me that makes sense on several levels. I don’t believe in Hinduism or Buddhism, though, nor New Age. I believe an essence/energy/soul/whatever is what makes living creatures alive and that this goes on as the being dies. This is universal, of course, it has nothing to do with religion in terms of punishment or sinning, sons of gods, chosen people or holy people. I strongly believe that all kinds of life human, animal, plant or alien, have it and go on in another form. I believe that it’s not arbitrary what happens to us. We’re here to learn. I don’t believe in God unless you mean a sort of synergetic pantheism.

It might be a little contradictory considering what I’ve just revealed, but I’m anti-religion. I don’t believe in them, and I think religious people are deluded, yet I do have my own belief.

Of course some of the people who have been nicest to me have been deeply religious (Jews or Catholics), so I don’t think it’s only bad. Sometimes I think it can lend a mental crutch to those in need and if it helps them through the day, that’s a good thing.
I can’t say that it ever did anything for me, though. Neither Judaism, Catholicism, Lutheran Christendom or reincarnation has done anything to lighten my grief for those who have passed on.

Long Island - it's even worse than the common stereotypes lead you to believe. Money and class are much more important than religion is there.

By open-armed, I meant that a Christian will gladly open the door to you as long as you take a pamphlet on the way out. They seemed to be under the perpetual illusion that people of other religions simply haven't been enlightened yet. This only seemed to be the trend when the person was at least a believer of some sort. All bets are off when they are dealing with someone who is not religious, as I found out later in life. I did not come across many Creationists in that region and homophobia seemed to be a little less rampant there. I guess it's hard to really hate the gays when they have such keen fashion sense.

Stopping you here. I said that the way you portray Muslims is similar to the way that white supremacists here portray blacks. Never said racism or anything of that sorts, just that you're painting with a very wide brush.

As far as the rest goes: you go back to talking about Muslims when I was never talking about them until YOU brought them up. Quit spinning. No one gives a crap other than some of the Muslims because they're pissed about Israel. The rest of the world really doesn't care who is Jewish or not other than the random racist/nazi.

I am Catholic and have a friendly attitude toward all faiths, as well as agnostics and atheists.

Many other Catholics in my xenophobic parish would just regard my family as anti-social.
(I'm not a Creationist, racist, sexist nor a homophobe.}

Actually the strife between Jews and Muslims go back farher than that. The modern day strife is basically about the Middle East, but these 2 groups have been in dispute over Abraham and his sons. Abraham had a son with the slave woman Hagar, Ismael, and when his wife Sara had a son, Isak (maybe spelled differently in English), she insisted that he send away Hagar and Ismael. He did reluctantly send them away, and for some religious zealots this has been a sore spot at times.




No argument there.

One thing I have always liked is rituals. I read the Giver by Lois Lowry as a teen and one thing I really liked about it was the rituals they had for the children up to age 12. (Of course, if I had actually lived in that kind of society I probably would have protested my way to be "released", asking "why do I have to z just because I'm a x year old girl?" But that's not the point!)

Rituals, rites of passages, they appeal to me for some reason, and in some ways I wish we had more of them. I don't know exactly where we should add them, at what age and in what circumstance, but anyway I sometimes feel that we're missing out on something.

Something I like about both Christianity and Judaism is that they have some rituals all go through, whether you call it Christening, Brit mila, Bar mitzwah, Bat chayil or confirmation. I think it's nice.

One thing I like about Judaism, as opposed to Christianity and Islam, is that they do not proselytise. Evangelising is a nuisance, and the worst type is Jehova's witnesses. Some of them just don't take no for an answer. (Not all though. Some are nice once they stop doing missionary work and start being people.)
But either way, I think people should come up with their own answers for the big questions, and seek out the religions/traditions/philosophies etc that appeal to them, not just simply allow someone to push it down their throat, more or less.

I also very much like the Chanukkah tradition with the candles, and I like the Catholic lighting of candles as you pray for someone.

Oh, I misread you then. Sorry about that.

I am amazed and disappointed that people believe ANYTHING.

It is amazing that people will debate this or that point from the Bible or Koran and kill each other over it.

Yet if someone were to say "What did Odin mean when he did this or what did Zeus mean by that" they would reply THAT IS MYTHOLOGY.

Ok, the gods of the Norse and the Egyptians, and the Greeks and the Romans and the Indians and the South Sea Islanders are "myths".

Yet modern so called educated people will kill each other about the mythology of a bunch of bronze age middle-eastern goat herders.

Christianity and Judaism are not my cup of tea. I'm an ex-Jew and now more pantheistic.

I was raised Mormon I am now agnostic/atheist but mostly apatheist (Don't know don't care)

I have no problem with the Jews as a whole they do not force their beliefs, try to convert me or judge me. Isrealis I do have a problem with.
Some Christians I do have a problem with. I don't go out of my way to try to convert them and wish they would leave me. Mormons are extremely judgemental, generally. They have official reasons on why people leave but what it boils down to is we leave because we want to sin. It's always our fault for leaving and never them.

Religion and belief topic

Here I go, killing another thread.

I see a big difference between belief (s) and religion. Beliefs are private and individual, and "religion" is a group thing. Sometimes the two are closer or similar, and there is little or no conflict. The religion group thingy depends on people towing the line in terms of belief. This keeps people together, ensures consistency and cohesiveness and that old familiar family feeling. People feel secure. sometimes this security feels dysfunctional, or no longer fits and this is when people have second thoughts and might leave. In this way, it may well be the "fault" of the individual whose beliefs are no longer in synch with the majority. Depending on the cost, the individual will either stay or leave the religious group. There is no middle way, at least in the conventional Christian, Jewish, Muslim and even some of those New Age sects/cults.

And this is the problem with religion, even though this problem is what keeps groups together and offers security. This is what I believe religion offers, along with the shared ritual thing that is part of the focus and appeal of religion. Ruveyn and Skilpadde see this as a security and survival benefit--tried and true functions of Judaism.

But I personally do not need this, but I can understand why some do.

Religion in and of itself, while little more than fairy tales to explain how/why to be good and a reason for death, are sadly the cause of probably the majority of the worlds oppression, wars, bigotry, and ignorance.

I don't see people killing each other over whether Fairy Godmother or the Good Witch of the North is the best fairy tale, but damn if they don't brutalize one another because some believe in a old guy and some in a kid of said old guy and some in a 6 armed guy.

Why can't the major religions simply make up stories where their god/s fight each other instead of their worshippers fighting? Ya didn't see the greeks, norse, egyptians or pretty much any other "pagan" religion fighting to force others to believe their religion. Sure they fought for other things, but not damn fairy tales.

Religion is one of the most utterly illogical creations of mankind and easily one of, if not the most, destructive. Money is the only real contender, and I'm not sure which kills more. Probably religion, people die for it, not just because of it. I don't hear much about suicide bombers because they're protecting their money. After all, what good is your money if you're dead?