ABOUT RELIGION

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bigblock
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25 Dec 2009, 4:49 am

Sand wrote:

bigblock wrote:

Sand I hear you. but I am not afraid of the shadows. And am detached from the horrors that millions have suffered at the hands of deviant religious leaders.

I just like the atmosphere of our community church.
Some churches do not carry the burdens of sin.

Hypocrisy is reality though.

I'm cool with what you have to say, just not comfortable with sexual contexts.

(Note I edited: Here to Hear, the third word)

I don't have any problems with body functions. Sex, like breathing, farting, pissing, sneezing etc are all fine with me. Religious attitudes on this are totally insane.

Ok sure there is problematic sexual attitudes or policies with in religions but that's not what I am saying. I can talk about SEX with the best of them.
I am queezy about talking about bodily functions.

And I wasn't anticipating the Sex subject to pop up here...

More geared for all folks on Wp, of all ages...

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SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 5:01 am

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Nup, still missing my point.

It's evident I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it?

We're talking about whether or not it's possible to attain a state of mind that transcends the mundane existence we currently experience.

I'm suggesting it might be achieved through a process where the practice far surpasses the theory, where the real benefit is achieved through experience rather than mere understanding. In other words - that it goes beyond communication.

For example - take the flag of your nation. When you see the flag it instantly conjures up a certain meaning that doesn't require words to express it.

As for an admirable endpoint, or an ultimate state - I used an example previously where it is possible to reach a successful conclusion. I wanted to counter your suggestion that an ultimate state was not something worth striving for in terms of our need for happiness.

EDIT: And as far as being skeptical in regards to the possibility of achieving an ultimate state (and I'm hesitant to use this example again after observing how distracting it can be for you) -
Take a pre-pubescent child: they've never experienced orgasm. They wouldn't even be able to conceive of one. Does this mean the potential for orgasm doesn't exist as a latent possibility within them?

First of all I do not find my existence mundane. Every moment I am alive and able to see, hear, feel smell, taste is a delight to me. Every small fruit fly sitting on a banana near my sink is a small individual that I try to see how it reacts to my approach, every raindrop that meanders down my window in a rain makes an interesting path. My pet sparrow talks to me, sings to my radio, sits on mu shoulder and pulls on my hair. Who needs ultimate moments? They are all wonderful indications that I am alive and well and fascinated. Every stain on a wall contains thousands of unusual images that form and change and vary as I watch and sink into deep concentrations on their patterns. I have no idea what you are looking for.

I appreciate your response. However, by 'mundane' I'm referring to the possibility that there could be something even better than this. What I am looking for is a state of permanent bliss rather than these -mundane- pleasant experiences that don't last forever and are interspersed with feelings of suffering as well. For me that's not good enough. Sorry but I am just not content to accept that vast improvement on my mind, on other beings' minds and the whole world we live in is not possible.

And I sincerely apologise, bigblock, if my analogies made you uncomfortable - and to anyone reading this who happens to be striving for a life of celibacy. With the first analogy I really couldn't resist - and maybe I was going for a bit of shock effect as well, but with the second analogy I really did try to think of a better one. It just fit better with what I was trying to convey. I'm sorry also because I can't actually promise that I won't do it again only because I struggle to see it as wrong. Anyone's welcome to convince me otherwise though.

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Sand
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25 Dec 2009, 5:08 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Nup, still missing my point.

It's evident I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it?

I really am not frantic to be doped up with bliss. I like problems, solving them and being frustrated because I have to play with them and think my way through. The world is full of wonderful and terrible problems and that's what my mind needs to keep it sharp and interesting. That's what I'm here for. You can take your bliss and shove it. I hope it makes a good suppository. Because all that crap should come out.

bigblock
Deinonychus

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25 Dec 2009, 5:12 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Nup, still missing my point.

It's evident I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it?

Thank You SporadSpontan I understand, and about the analogy, I want to feel wonderfully fulfilled always too. (Can there be wonder in fulfillment) if there can't, I hope you get my meaning anyways as well.

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bigblock
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Joined: 11 Jan 2009
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25 Dec 2009, 5:17 am

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Nup, still missing my point.

It's evident I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it?

Come On Sand

Take It Easy

Live and Let Live

It Christmas weather you want in or not

One so keen to crap on others today might be a little envious?

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We're here for a good time... Not a long time...So have a good time, the sun can't shine everyday.

SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 5:23 am

Whatever makes you happy, Sand. And I'm happy for you. Probably'll only be temporary though!

And bigblock, thanks for understanding. I like the 'wonder' thing. Relative fulfillment could certainly contain wonder, but ultimately - fulfillment, in terms of what I'm hoping for at least, would necessarily entail a complete annihilation of wonder in one's mindstream. But 'wonderful' is a description I appreciate regardless.

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Sand
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25 Dec 2009, 5:31 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

Life is temporary. A lousy hundred years or so are hardly enough time to really get into things properly though some obviously do it better than I do. Nevertheless life is what it is and whatever its flavor you have to either enjoy it or spit it out. I enjoy rolling it around in my mouth and will chew my cud as long as my jaws can move.

SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 5:38 am

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

Good point - 'life is temporary'. Some of us are not satisfied by this undeniable truth.

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bigblock
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25 Dec 2009, 5:39 am

SAND

You are a necessary part of this conversation. Very insightful.

I like to read what you Think and others do to I Think.

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SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 5:44 am

Sand wrote:

bigblock wrote:

If you take in religion from all perspectives
Then you will know more

But ill bet its tougher for people on this site to join religion than others that follow leaders more blindly.

The sex as a metaphor is kinda extreme here...

Religion is to me an obvious perverted vicious scam and I am sure I can convince nobody of this by reason so I don't try.

Does this mean you have no reasons for holding this belief?

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Sand
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25 Dec 2009, 5:54 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

bigblock wrote:

Religion is to me an obvious perverted vicious scam and I am sure I can convince nobody of this by reason so I don't try.

Does this mean you have no reasons for holding this belief?

No, it means that I am pretty well aware of the history of religions and can see every day what religious viciousness is doing in Africa, in the Middle East, in the Catholic Church, in India, in Sri Lanka etc. ( I have no idea what religions are doing in Antarctica but I have my suspicions about those tuxedoed penguins [Have you read Anatole France's wonderful "Island of the Penguins"?])

It also means I have no reasons for not holding these beliefs.

SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 6:05 am

I appreciate if you want to take a neutral position. However it's a very generalised notion that all religion is bad just because some are. And I refuse to pass judgement on the penguins! lol

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Sand
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25 Dec 2009, 6:11 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

I appreciate if you want to take a neutral position. However it's a very generalised notion that all religion is bad just because some are. And I refuse to pass judgement on the penguins! lol

They may look formal but encountering a karate trained emperor penguin six foot tall in a dark alley is no laughing matter. Especially if he is a religious fanatic.

SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 6:21 am

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

I appreciate if you want to take a neutral position. However it's a very generalised notion that all religion is bad just because some are. And I refuse to pass judgement on the penguins! lol

They may look formal but encountering a karate trained emperor penguin six foot tall in a dark alley is no laughing matter. Especially if he is a religious fanatic.

lol!

I'd be concerned about the formal attire and the fanaticism, but everything else should be alright. I think those trained in karate are taught to only use it as self-defence. So as long as you don't initiate any sudden, violent moves - you should be fine!

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Sand
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25 Dec 2009, 6:30 am

SporadSpontan wrote:

Sand wrote:

SporadSpontan wrote:

I appreciate if you want to take a neutral position. However it's a very generalised notion that all religion is bad just because some are. And I refuse to pass judgement on the penguins! lol

They may look formal but encountering a karate trained emperor penguin six foot tall in a dark alley is no laughing matter. Especially if he is a religious fanatic.

But you put aside the religious fanaticism. That's the whole point. You know nothing of the nearsighted priest who baptized the penguin flock a century ago because he thought they were formal gentlemen. That gave them eternal souls to be damned and the penguins have never forgiven humanity

SporadSpontan
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25 Dec 2009, 6:42 am

Hence the reason to fear the karate training.
Oh well, it's probably best to stay away from those dark alleys anyway!

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