Does God Have A Sense Of Humor - The Great Debate

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Quoting Sand

No need to be sorry. Who is excusing misery? I'm not so sure that wishing won't make it come true, what ever "it" is, if everyone, or at least the majority, are wishing for the same thing. From my point of view, wishing for a thing means we can imagine such a thing, imagining such a thing, means it's existence is a possibility. Whether that thing then comes into existence or being through a Divine Creator that has been given the name of God, or through the collaborative efforts of ordinary not so divine people working toward the same goal, makes no difference as long as "it" is brought into existence or made manifest. Heaven on Earth whether God-made or Man-made is still Heaven On Earth. Science may in fact be just another name for God.

Your thinking is off. Imagining something does not automatically make it possible.

Quoting Sand

No, I don't think my thinking is off. Not to say that it can't be. Hasn't everything that has ever been invented (created) first been an idea in the mind of its inventor/creator? If a thing is inconceivable it can't be realized or brought into existence.

Have to run out to the store for groceries. So don't interpret my lack of an immediate or timely response as a lack of interest.

There are many things that were conceived and thereby created and probably many more that were conceived and found impossible to create. People are coming up with perpetual motion machines almost continuously and these are not possible. On the other hand many of the latest discoveries of science, such as quantum entanglement are damned near impossible to conceive yet they exist. Merely conceiving of things guarantees nothing at all.

Passage in bold added by me. To an extent, it is a play of an older adage - if you can't win, change the rules. If the desired result is not attainable, perhaps it is not the idea but the environment that must change or adapt to provide for success. And for all my skepticism regarding the concept of god, I have to also admit that I cannot disprove the possibility either... though if there were the case, I think that the actuality of such a being would be very different than the conceptualization/idealization built in the minds of man.


M.

SMOKE

This hard reality that sparkles,
Screams, thrusts its forces on my nerves,
That speaks so convincingly of something,
Something undeniable that serves
As an extension from my secret synapses
Into a larger total inexorability.
So that all doubt dissolves, collapses.
But when pressed, demanded, analyzed, perceived
By intricate mechanical-electrical devices
Subservient to educated experts, is relieved
Of its responsibility to the absolute
Reality becomes less astute.
Quantum calculation substantiates by fiat
With its mathematics tuned to find the root
Of sequence, of events where cause, effect,
Move nose to tail in consequence.
Suddenly our universe multiplies,
Swallows conflicting events.
They happen here, they happen there,
They happen everywhere,
And what may be may not,

And the cosmos doesn’t care
As the monster of improbability
Emerges from its lair.
Yesterday, tomorrow and today
Can be coincident
If you travel far enough away
At speeds to rip the firmament.
It's not a funny joke
When hard reality
Goes up in smoke.

@ Sand
First, let me say, that poem is brilliantly constructed. It flows, it sparkles, the rhyme is not forced and does not conflict with the reason; it has all the elements which mark and are prized in true poetry. It's stark, but not cold and empty. It's not, in my opinion the work of an atheist. It's a lament. I don't think an atheist is capable of true lamenting. It's a rage against futility and a demand for real answers to real mysteries. Since you don't give credit to its author, I assume it is your own work.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh44QPT1mPE[/youtube]

Okay. What does that video have to do with anything we're discussing here? Bah Humbug! I'll try to be brief. Why has man always sought to connect with the world outside him and to make sense of it? Why, in most of the human race, is there a urgent drive to be united with someone or something greater than ourselves? The answer usually given to these questions in debates of this type is "Fear. Fear drives us to form relationships with others like ourselves; mates, families, clans, tribes, nations, continents, and perhaps, in the future, other worlds. Fear drives us to search for and/or create gods or A God to protect ourselves and those we love and those we have allegiance to." . I could expound on this, but I don't think it's necessary. We all know the drill.

While I think it's true, that fear is and has been historically, the greatest motivator in mankind's need to develop methods and ideologies that will promote and ensure the continuance of life by providing Security, other needs, just as basic, just as real, just as profound and pressing, are also at work as motivators for the desire for us to connect and unite. Fear alone did not invent God. There is something in the human mind/soul that makes us long for wholeness or completeness and transcendence to a higher plane of existence and a purer form of being. An attachment to someone or something that is difficult to describe with language. Over time, this one or this thing has come to be called God. Tragedies are only experienced through our senses and registered in our minds in human terms. Human terms are not sufficient to explain them.

We have options, many options, it seems, but the most apparent and popular views are two: the universe is chaotic and can't be understood, or the universe is orderly and understanding it is possible. In between there are any number of variations and combination of these two. I think there are patterns of order that we can't see because of our vantage point. If and when that changes, perhaps we will see that we've been barking up the wrong tree. In the meantime, if I have to take a position, I think it would be better for all concerned, if I were to continue playing the game as if God really does exist and really does care about me and mine and the rest of Creation. What do I have to lose if he doesn't?

What inspires art and music and literature more than the artist's own desire to be lifted up into another and higher realm? What inspired people to begin communicating at all? Fear does not inspire. Fear does not lift the mind, soul, spirit into creativity and bliss. What drives people to look and hope for the good in each other? What inspired Neil Young to keep on searching for a heart of gold?

God is autistic, that's why he doesn't understand that we suffer

However, he surely enjoys typical aspie absurd humour - I think Monty Python were sent down to earth as a divine cause, and to show aspies that he does love us, and provide us with endless entertainment. Shouldn't we form a religious group to spread their ideas?

Think about the world full of people like them. So yes, if everyone was like Jesus there was world peace bla bla - but if everyone were Pythons, we would have new material every day!

Quoting Omerik

Where do I sign up? I think I would fit in nicely. The Theology of the Absurd. You make the pamphlets, I'll stand on the street corner and pass them out. In addition to Monty Python, we will have a lot of other "big names" to back us up. Our prophets and evangelists of the Absurd. I really like this idea.







Come to think of it, Kierkegaard's Knights will fit it nicely with Monty Python.

Chaos lurks like Harpo Marx
Amongst the clicking ticks of time
To poke its finger in the works,
To twitch the switch
Of the sublime,
Flicking hope, evoking death,
Grinning with a bated breath.
But rationality still rules
Employing basic sets of tools
To foil the foolishness of fools.
No curly headed empty smile
Can persuade or beguile
The gears that grind eternity.
The universe is not perverse
Nor can reverse its logic style.

Harpo Marx - The Comic Saint
A brilliant man, gifted musician, who only played a fool and played it brilliantly
Speaking of Harpo Marx:

Gummo Marx (brother): "Harpo played the right instrument. He was an angel. There was nobody like him, there never will be anybody like him. He was just simply wonderful. He never had a bad word for anybody... not like me. I at least occasionally say something. But Harpo... they don’t make that kind anymore."

Miriam Marx (Groucho's daughter): "Harpo was almost not of this world, he was saintly, ethereal. He was my favorite person..."

Norman Krasna: "Harpo was a pixie-like person... a giant pixie. He was completely kin... Dogs and children would come to him as he got into a room... he absolutely was a saint."

George Jessel: "Harpo was exactly what harp actually means: Angel... You know, there’s a church in Brussels, and on top are all little cherubs. And they all look like Harpo Marx."

This video gets chaotic and very funny at about 3:30
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MExljPsMEbA[/youtube]

I would say that God definately has a sense of humor, mostly because a great deal of what he says in the old testiment comes across as a little sarcastic: "Why are you praying to me? Isn't Baal was your God now?"

not that have a problem with that. I love sarcasm. I love like the white cream in the middle of oreos.

as for wether he'll tolerate being the butt of the joke, I'd say definately not.

But I think the real question is:

the mind boggles.

as for all the "If God is benevolent, why is there injustice in the world?" going around, if God prevented us from ever making mistakes, he would not be allowing us free will. If God denied us free will, he would not be a benevolent God. However, if humans use their free will to hurt others, or even to refuse to help others when they have the means to do so, that is not God's fault.

I would also argue the fact that God hasn't destroyed us all yet is a testiment to his benevolence. I would have most likely given up on humanity a long time go.

Here's my thought - if he does exist.

Anyone familiar with Maynard James Keenan from Tool and their brand of dark/cryptic humor? I have a feeling God's not far off that mark.

Example - the 'book of life'. If he's outside of time - he gets it, he knows what he built, he has no reason to blame a single thing on anything of our making. In that sense the book of life would be 'Have you ever taken a breath or metabolized for a moment? Lol, good - you're in'. The dark joke is that our experience and intel here are so far off the mark.

EXIT GENESIS

"I have," said God.
"A nice idea,
A thing that could be fun."
So he twiddled 'round
With time and space
And fuddled up the Sun.

"Now, that's quite neat!",
He said with heat.
"I'll make a couple more."
And he tumbled out a quantity
'Til it became a bore.

But suns put out a lot of junk
Like planets, dust and gas.
And God, with red-rimmed eyes looked 'round
At all this messy jazz.

It made God twitch,
It made God sneeze,
It gave him water on the knees,
It gave Him pimples on his face.
And so, He said, "To hell with this!"
And went some other place.

Just because God knows what decisions you will make ahead of time does not make it his fault that you made them.

No, but it makes Him a Damned Fool for setting it up so those decisions would be made.